Your View

Actually Sheila, I was saying that the ethical choice was NOT to abandon the animal -!

I suspect that the number of cases where there is truly NO other choice is a very small proportion of animal abandonment cases.

Is Alberta the only province hiring? No. Are there living situations that will accept pets? Yes. I just did an internet search and in 30 seconds found a dozen apartments in both Calgary and Edmonton that will take cats and dogs, and a handful in Fort McMurray as well.

How many other accommodation options did these people pursue (such as sharing a house), anyway? Or how many people are just giving up before they start, thinking that pets are disposable anyway?

My gratitude goes out to the SPCAs and humane societies for trying to pick up the pieces ... and I urge everyone to seriously consider what you would do about this if you had to move.

If your plans include dropping off the cat/dog/parrot at the local pound before leaving, then please - don't adopt a pet.

Okay how did this conversation stray from people leaving PEI to whether or not animal life is important or respected. People leaving PEI or anywhere for that matter and travelling to Alberta is nothing new; being forced to leave their pets behind although sad in many circumstances is necessary.

Most apartments won't take pets and unless you have the 300,000 dollars for a home in either Edmonton or Calgary you will be subject to that ruling. Sad but real

I would also like to correct this Roch fellow. Actually man started off as a scavenger eating the dead flesh from the left overs of kills from larger and more predatory animals....that is why man eats meat. Like all mammals man is nothing more than an animal...sometimes worse.

It's the religious bible beaters who feel that man is elevated somehow, all of the things that make us unique were evolved to help us survive plain and simple....We learned by watching early forms of the vulture and the hyenna. Animals and humans are very tied together and to be more blunt our very existence like theirs depends on our mutual co-existence.

I agree with Shannon that although animals are judged by her to not have any less intrisic value, the decision to accept employment and a better life elsewhere is the correct ethical choice to make. The Humane Society takes care of pets, but they don't provide employment.

We can debate ad nauseum whether companion animals are "equivalent" to human or not, but it doesn't mean they have any less intrinsic value (as much as we even have the right to judge that), and it certainly doesn't mean they aren't capable of suffering. If anything, they deserve our care more than some humans I can think of.

Companion animals depend on us, and will suffer if abandoned. It comes down to an ethical choice, of whether to cause suffering to a creature that you have assumed responsibility for. In my opinion, if a family includes abandoning an animal in its plans, then that family should not have an animal in the first place.

No, Shannon that is not what I am saying. I'm simply pointing out the flaw in Dereks arguments. I don't think that aminals can transcend their instinct. Their needs are very basic unlike humans. They need food and safety. Anything they learn will come from those two needs.

If Dereks parot nibbles gently at his ear it's not because it loves him. It would probably do the same with anyone it feels safe around. If it doesn't feel safe around another person it would either keep it's distance or bite, once again it's responding for it's basic need for secutity.

I've tried many times to teach my dogs tricks and they only respond if I give them affection (representing security) or food. Some people also use punishment (threat to security) but that's usually unnecessary since the if rewards don't work niether will punishment.

Our needs on the other hand are much more complex. Ever heard of Maslow? I've never seen a single animal create anything except maybe a mess. Whereas we seem to have the need to create constantly. We have a need for self improvement whereas my dog... I can't even get her to pick up after herself.

I agree with Keri that it is egocentric for humans to expect animals to be like humans, and to possss human qualities. Animals, simply put, are NOT human.

That is why PEI families are making the right choice, as difficult as it is: it's doing what is best for their own family.

Bill used my comments to make a rather weak point. He took my comments out of context. As a vet tech, I have to tell you that it is unequovacally cruel to put a cat or dog out to fend for itself.

But here is what I meant:

When we say animals are "dumb", what we really are saying is that they are not like us, they can't use computers or calculus so they are "stupid".

MY point is that there was no adaptive function for the direct ancestors of dogs (wolves) and cats (African wildcats) to behave like humans. They ARE intelligent, just not in the egocentric way we want them to be.

Conversely, Bill, you seem to be saying that if an animal has intelligence and can display unconditional love, it then follows that they could survive in the wild if suddenly released. The logic of that argument isn't quite clear, from my perspective.

It's been well documented that domesticated animals who haven't learned from birth how to hunt for food are not equipped to do so, if released later in life. That's why wild bird rehab centres (to name just one example) spend months training injured baby birds how to hunt, before they even consider releasing them.

This would seem to indicate that it's a combination of instinct and parental training that is required - although admittedly this is not my area of expertise!

If you have a domestic cat or dog that has spent years "hunting" in their food dish, to release them into the wild and hope that they will magically figure out how to survive is simply cruel, and effectively sentencing them to death by starvation. This is common knowledge - or at least, I thought it was, until reading some of these posts.

There may be isolated cases where a person, for whatever reason, simply can't keep their pet. I suspect, though, that it's but a tiny percentage of all the animals that are abandoned.

Many people still seem to be thinking of their own convenience, and deluding themselves about the harmful effects on their companion animals.

To just add to Derek's comments about animals feeling lonliness.

There was a story in the local paper where I was living in the US last year. A dog was surrendered to the local humane society because the owners were moving to somewhere that didn't allow pets.

A nice couple came and showed interest in this dog and the humane society set up and appointment for them to meet. The day of the meeting the dog was so excited to see this couple and they got along very well- a perfect match. It was then that the staff member on duty found out that this couple was in fact the people who gave the dog up in the first place.

No wonder he was so excited and got along so well with them. Staff immediately sent the couple away and went on to describe the sorrow and disbelief the dog displayed when his owners left, yet again, and leaving him behind. It was a sad story double abandonment.

"I'd be willing to wager that my little parrot is a hell of alot smarter than some of the people writing in to CBC."
Derek I'd take that bet!

If funny that you say that domestic animals cannot survive on their own because they've lost their instict suggesting that they can only go as far as their instinct allows. Yet you claim great intelligence in your parrot and that he shows you "unconditional love" both of which are traits which transcend instinct. You can't argue both ways.

Bill - which do you think would fare better in the wild: a wolf who has based its entire existence on knowing that it needs to hunt for its food in order to survive, or a dog who has been fed by people its entire life, doesn't know how to hunt and is suddenly abandoned by its owner?

Sure, wild animals starve to death all the time, but at least they have the chance to survive based on what they've had to learn from their parents in order to survive.

I know that *I* don't teach my dog how to chase down a deer and kill it. Instinct can only take an animal so far and this instinct is bred out of animals when they've been domesticated as long as, say, dogs and cats have.

I'd also argue against the point you make of animals being 'dumb'. Based on the posts I've seen on this website on the variety of topics available, I'd be willing to wager that my little parrot is a hell of alot smarter than some of the people writing in to CBC.

Shannon's idea of contributing to the SPCA is an excellent one. I too am going to call today and begin monthly donations.

I agree, we seem to have a troll on our hands.

I think one thing we can all take away from this discussion is that there are still some people who think nothing of leaving an animal behind, so we all need to be vigilant and also support the educational efforts of our local SPCA/human society.

I'm sad to say that's how I came to have all 3 of my cats - someone else abandoned them. It's turned out well for me and for them in the end (I like to think), but I can hardly bear to think of the upheaval that they went through - not to mention all the animals who DON'T end up getting adopted, which are far greater in number.

One of my cats had been previously left behind by his family when they moved, and a friend of mine found him rummaging through dumpsters looking for something to eat. My heart aches to think of it.

It can be logistically challenging to move with animals, but certainly not impossible. A few years ago we moved from Edmonton to Ottawa, with three cats in the car, staying in motels along the way. When I was young, my family moved with cats, camping the whole time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I'm going to contact my SPCA this afternoon to start monthly donations - obviously this educational process still needs support.

It's quite a stretch that "M" from Sudbury equates understanding and having empathy for PEI families being forced to relocate for employment purposes with possessing contempt for all animal lovers.

There are many sides to every story. Different points of view is what discussion is about, for mature readers.

Kery argues that:
"If you were lost in the forest, would you be "intelligent" enough to simply find food or shelter for your sorry selves? Stray cats and dogs fare better than humans."
Whereas Derek argues for the same side:
"most animals have been domesticated for such a long time that they're completely incapable of taking care of themselves in the wild."

So it leaves me wondering do we need to treat animals as well as humans because they are so intelligent or do we need to treat them as humans because they are so dumb?

Wild animals end up dying by starving or by being eaten by other animals, (unless they are hunted in which case they die much more quickly and humanely) why should domestic animals be exempt from this?

It is quite clear to me that Roch of
Winnipeg is only posting here to see what kind of "ka ka" can be stirred up.

I do not mind engaging in a spirited debate with some one who I may disagree with their views the discussions can get "interesting" Mr or Mrs (as the case may be) Roch has shown nothing but contempt for animal lovers who have posted their views her and to be honest I think if we all ignore this person hopefully they will just go away as there will be no one "who wants to play" any more & the game won't be fun any more

Abandoning an animal is not releasing it into its natural habitat...most animals have been domesticated for such a long time that they're completely incapable of taking care of themselves in the wild.

They don't know how to hunt or scavange for food and this is something, as pet owners, we have to accept some responsibility for.

As for Roch's comment on dumping a gold fish in the ocean. It's a fresh water fish and you've dumped it in salt water...you've just killed an animal.

While you'd never be jailed for such a thing, people may question the morality behind what you've done. The same would go for taking your dog into the forest and leaving it there to starve and/or be killed by other (wild) animals.

If someone does this honestly thinking that they're releasing an animal back into its natural habitat and doing it a favour, then they're simply too stupid to ever be responsible for the welfare of another living thing.

As for people who haven't any qualms about treating animals so horribly...I can only hope that nobody ever treats you as you would treat an animal.

People are capable of such horrible things. To see someone do something so terrible to a creature that's so innocent and defenseless and that relies upon us completely for its survival is utterly disappointing, disgusting and further reduces the faith I have in humanity today.

The problem with losing an arm rather than 'abandoning' a pet is the pet typically only lives a few years, whereas your arm is lost for your entire life.

Why don't they call it the abandonment society rather than the humane society? An orphanage, with abandoned children, should be called humane society, since it's for humanes, not animals.

What's wrong with FREEING an animal to its natural habitat, as NATURE intended? So I dumped my goldfish from their bowl into the ocean - does that make me a monster that should be locked up in jail cell?

I don't think the hysteria is misguided at all. These "poor" people have abandoned a member of their family.

I know that some people scoff at the notion that an animal can have feelings, or that an animal can form a sense of attachment to its family that transcends the need for food. I would say to these people that I feel sorry for them that they aren't capable of engaging in that kind of relationship - but don't punish the animals for it. It would be better if you simply didn't adopt an animal in the first place.

By the way, it's not only Islanders doing this, but people from all over. I would like someone who has done this to come to this forum and explain their rationale. I would sooner live on welfare or lose an arm than abandon an animal - but maybe there's some other factor that the rest of us don't know about ... ? Come on, speak up.

The hysteria and venom directed at these poor unemployed PE Islanders for simply trying to make a better life for their human family is misguided.

Send your suggestions and donations to PEI Humane Society, where the animals now reside.

Roch, I think there's a difference between someone killing an animal and eating its meat vs. abandoning and/or euthanizing a pet because they're, as you said, 'dumb animals'.

I mean, say you have a pet cat (or dog, or fish, or an emu...anything) that you decide has become an inconvenience and you leave it behind or put it down when you move.

You've abandoned a completely innocent creature that did nothing wrong and relied on you completely to be fed and taken care (a responsibility assumed by the pet owner when they brought the pet home in the first place). The animal is helpless and unable to take care of itself...this, in my mind, is a perfect example of animal cruelty.

I know that animals experience feelings of lonliness and abandon...every morning when I leave for work, my dog whines by the door and my little parrot makes a sad little chirpy noise that she makes whenever I go somewhere and she knows she can't come with me. It's sad for me, but I know that I'll be home at the end of the day to play with and take care of my babies (they're as much 'babies' to me as any child will ever be).

The thought of an animal being left behind by its owners and it waiting (in vain) for its owner to come home and take care of and love it...having the animal grow sadder and hungrier as time goes on...having it feel lonely and unwanted and having it suffer because some selfish *&%$%&#^ deemed it an inconvenience...that just fills me with rage and the owners should be hunt down and shot.

Going to a barebeque and seeing a chicken breast sitting on a plate...it's already dead and while people may debate on whether or not it being killed for food was cruel, it's not going to spring back to life if you leave it sitting on the table. Personally, I don't eat meat, though those that do while proclaiming themselves as animal-lovers shouldn't be considered as hypocrites. The animals killed for meat are, at least, providing sustenance.

The main thing I question about extremist animal lovers is why they only love certain kinds of animals, like cats and dogs.

They are often the first one in line at BBQ, eating delicious hamburgers, chicken and ribs.

Weren't those delicacies once animals?

Why are only 'cute' animals entitled to human equality?

I have a parrot, a cat and a dog and I have to say that comments such as those made by Roch sicken me to my stomach.

I know (as should anybody who has ever owned a pet) that they experience emotions just as we do. They experience happiness and sadness just as we do. To say that animals stick around only because they know where they're fed is an impossibly ignorant statement.

My parrot doesn't sit on my shoulder, gently nibble on my ear, demand to be on the couch snuggled up in the crook of my arm and scream her head off if I leave the room without taking her with me because she knows where her next meal is coming from.

My cat doesn't curl up and fall asleep purring on my chest EVERY night nor does my dog stay by my side every second of the day because they know that I'm the one that feeds them.

I genuinely believe that animals are the only beings on this planet capable of unconditional love. They don't care if you're disabled, over-weight, unattractive or poor...they stay by your side and give affection all the same.

The impact a loving pet can have on someone's life is immeasurable. You can count on another person turning on you or stabbing you in the back, though you'll never see this from a pet.

I would never, EVER leave any of my pets behind or abandon them in any way. While I'm sure there are exceptional circumstances where a person has absolutely no choice, I'm willing to bet money on the fact that the majority of people leaving PEI didn't even try to find another option.

By getting, say, a cat or a dog, we accept responsibility for looking after and loving it and it needs that from us. People who consider animals as an expendable accessory are, in my eyes, complete monsters.

Joe, I apologize, I did not mean to direct my venom at you. I just think people here are completely missing the point.

It does NOT cost ANYTHING to call friends and family and find another home so your pet does not have to be destroyed. Let's not pretend this simple act will make you a martyr.

I have met people who had lost their homes and even someone with cancer who were in crisis - all perfectly legitimate reasons for bringing their pets to a shelter. But they managed to find good homes for their pets. If they can do it, anyone can.

If you have no sympathy for your pets, have some for the folks at animal shelters in Canada and the U.S. who have to poison these young, healthy animals. I've done it, and it's horrible.

They're certainly not getting rich - can most of those compassionate folks at the shelter even afford to move or buy homes?

"And if it's too much of a problem to take animals on airplanes...well people... cars/trains/buses have been invented for a long time and they all head to Alberta. "

I am currently facing this exact dilemma - stay where I am with no home, no job, no money but my dog or go to Alberta where I will have a job but have difficulty finding a place to live which takes pets (a very rare thing)AND I can afford.

My dog has moved numerous times with me and I have always found a way, but the idea of driving across the praires in the middle of winter because no planes will take him makes me wonder - will he be able to keep me alive when I am stuck in a ditch somewhere?

Because that is the risk I would be taking. As for leaving him with family or friends, I don't have the luxury of living within 2 days' drive of any. It is easy to sit in judgement when you have never had to move to be able to put a roof over your head.

To me, the issue is: why do so many people have to leave their pets behind? Surely we can find a way to transport pets at a reasonable cost.

If you can't afford to fly with your pet, there are other ways to cross the country than flying.

If you can't afford or are unwilling to be responsible for the care of a pet, then don't get one in the 1st place...then there is no argument about the value of its life or having to 'choose'.

There is not one solid argument posted here that justifies abandonning an animal whom is bred to depend on you for support.

Leaving them behind to starve, survive harsh weather elements and suffer from fear and loneliness is completely irresponsible and cruel. These pet owners should never have had pets in the 1st place if they intended to treat them as disposible garbage.

I grew up on a farm surrounded by cats, dogs, pigs, horses, chickens, you name it we had it. I love animals. I've almost always had a pet, although in recent years my situation does not allow me to own a pet so I don't.

I really don't think that all these people who abandon their pets truly mean any harm, and I bet they did try to find homes for them. I guess things happen in life that are beyond our control, and where once a person could have a pet, but suddenly is forced to make a choice, how do all these animal rights people propose we handle that?

If the company I worked for for over 20 years decides to close, and I must leave to find work, what do I do? If I can't take my pet, do I stay home and go on welfare? Do I have to choose between feeding my kids or leaving my cat? And I'd like to know just who has talked to these animals to know if they are 'happy' or 'died lonely' or any other emotion.

Animals are creatures of instinct and habit. A dog comes home because he knows that's who will feed him. But if the man down the road starts to feed him at his house, he'll go there too. Pets are pets, they are not our 'animal children', only to their animal mothers. My kids come first and always will.

The question arises .... is this happening only in PEI and not the other provinces.

Personally I take animals where-ever I travel. Better travel companions that most of the people I know.

And if it's too much of a problem to take animals on airplanes...well people... cars/trains/buses have been invented for a long time and they all head to Alberta.

Keri,

Your vehemence noted, as you can no doubt read, none of those things were said or implied. Additionally, while I unfortunately cannot take responsibility for the domestication of wild dogs and cats, the pets we have now, of course, have to be accommodated as best as we can.

This accommodation is, however, all really a matter of degree and at times, economic and family needs take priority, at least in a sane world.

While none of us can speak directly to the motivations behind all aspects of this story, simply put, there are people in the world who may choose not to spend thousands of dollars (which they may not even have) to accommodate their 4 cats while relocating to a cold, industrial landscape in hope of a better life. These people are not generally monsters and if economics allowed it, odds are we may not even be reading this story.

So before you lecture on moral absolutes perhaps you should try a few years in an economically depressed area because it is basically a guarantee that if potatoes were worth as much as oil the people of PEI would not be moving at all.

Memo to Jeanpierre and some other posters:

We don't have to "choose" between humans in Darfur, and our pets. We don't have to "choose" between the importance of children and the importance of our pets. It is possible to do the right thing in all of these situations! We are big people - we can do it.

Pets are not disposable furniture; they are living beings who form attachments to their human families, and become part of the family.

As several posters here have demonstrated, where there's a will, there's a way. If anyone would even consider leaving their pet behind because they are moving, I don't think they should have a pet in the first place.

Wouldn't it be great if Americans cared half as much about human beings (like those in Iraq and Darfur) as they do about their cats? Or if they cared half as much about not allowing their lying politicians to get away with it as they do about making sure their puppies have a glossy coat?

In defence of the “dumb” animals that some of the insensitive “dumb” humans are calling them. They don’t choose the families that are suppose to be caring for them. If you are “dumb” enough to get one and you can afford it well suck it up! You chose the cat or dog to be a loving member of your family you can’t just get rid of them like yesterdays news.

It’s a shame that these poor animals are sent to the humane society and that most of them are being euthanized for no good reason.

To anyone out there who wants a nice furry companion to love and to care for I urge you to go to your humane society to adopt. These animals will love and cherish you, as they are so happy to be in a loving home.

I have two beautiful cats that I would never give up for the world. And should anything happen to me they already have a home to where they can go to when I am gone. It's not hard to plan ahead.

Joe,

You seem to be implying that if someone spends an extra hour or so finding a good home for their pet it will be fatal for their children and relatives. Bull.

Just because some pet owners won't get off their lazy butts and make a few phone calls, don't tell me that equates to putting your family's life at risk.

If people say "my dog just wants rewards" or "my cat claws out of spite and is dumb" that proves that the pet owner does not understand the behaviour of obligate carnivores or canid pack behaviour. That means that the PET OWNER is the stupid one, not the pet!

Finally, of COURSE pets are not "citizens". Why should an animal that evolved from wild creatures know how to drive a car or do the idiotic tricks we force them to? There was no adaptive function for their relatives in those things we think they should do.

Cats behave like other felines, dogs behave like other canids. Humans CHOSE to domesticate them. So it is our responsibility to respect their needs. Get with the program.

The situation with the pets in PEI may be difficult but let's get a little perspective here. I for one have had a pet nearly every year I have been alive. They are amazing companions (and that word seems somehow inadequate) that I love and when they all eventually pass, I grieve.

But they are not people and they cannot be looked at as equal to humans in terms of how we treat them. Call it a human biological imperative or what have you but while a pet tabby or schnauzer may be wonderful, they do not and should not compare to the life of a child or the adult that child will become.

Cruelty to animals is something I find truly revolting but practical life decisions that affect actual families have to take precedent and if that means you have to make a difficult choice for your family then that is exactly what you have to do.

Considering the often sad state of human life across the planet though, it would appear that the house pets of the citizens of the western world may have actually won the PR battle anyway. It seems that pets have indeed become quite a bit more important than the health and happiness of the rest of humanity not to mention segments within our own society. Although I doubt many will, I find that very disturbing.

Bill and Roch, do me a favor, tell me exactly why an animal's life is not equal (notice I did not say MORE important) to a human's life. People get outraged by this question, but no one ever gives a good answer.

I hear "humans are intelligent". Well that's absurd, what about someone with brain damage, or the mentally challenged? Should they be put down?

If you were lost in the forest, would you be "intelligent" enough to simply find food or shelter for your sorry selves? Stray cats and dogs fare better than humans.

Read the studies that show people who lack compassion for animals are more likely to commit violent crimes. And do some soul searching for goodness sake.

First of all I like animals, I've had pets since I can remember, but I would never ever place then on a level with a human child. I find it repugnant that any sane person would.

I have three pets now and if I had to move for any reason I'd investigate the cost of taking them along but in the end if I felt that it cost too much I'd certainly try and give them away but I'd have no qualms about putting them down.

Animals serve a number of purposes A) food, B) Tools (i.e. seeing eye dogs) and C) Entertainment/comfort (i.e. Pets).

As for giving you "unconditional love", BS they only know where their meals come from and where they are safe. The motivation for anything they do is purely selfish and based their need for survival. If my dog ever does something for me where he does not expect some sort of a reward then maybe I'll think differently.

The humane society's purpose is to take care of animals. What are they complaining about? Would they prefer PE Islanders remain unemployed on welfare and starving to death?

They're only dumb animals - not human. People need to take care of themselves first! To survive, man learned early to EAT animals.

The only good travel companion animals are elephants or horses or something you can ride, since they have a use.

These days most people own pets as fashion statement rather than love for animal.

I moved from Ontario to BC this year and I packed both of my cats and brought them with me. In the late 80s my family moved to Australia and because our cat was sick he wouldn't pass through Australian quarantine.

After we found out he died of lonliness after our house sold we vowed to never leave another pet behind and our orange tabby cat followed us from Australia to Canada at a considerable expense (And almost got lost by Air Canada, too)

The only time I had to leave a pet behind I made sure to secure a good home for it before leaving.

This is a subject that I feel very strongly about. I have a cat and Tigger (that's his name) is as much my "baby" as a human child would be.

There is no way in that I would ever abandon him for the sake of a better job in another province. If I couldn't take Tigger with me simply put I would not accept the job.

This is not "rocket science" a pet is not an object like a stereo or VCR that cat or dog is a member of your family. Would you abandon your son or daughter because it was not "convenient" to have them around any more? No of corse not so why do it to a dog or cat?

That is a betraial of the unconditional love that the animal give you as it's friend and companion and simply put there is not a word in the English landguage that accurately describes the contempt that I feel for those "human" who abandon a member of their family

I have worked at animal shelters much of my life and "moving" is the main reason for giving up pets. The shelter I worked at recieved over 11,000 unwanted pets in one year. 50 percent of them were destroyed.

That's 800 young, friendly cats and dogs that I personally euthanized in one year. Have you ever seen a trash barrel full of cats? I have.

The problem is that most adopters don't want cats that are "old", meaning over 6 months old. I have seen adopters stand in a room filled with 30 adoptable cats under 2 years old and fight over the last 8-week old kitten.

I would live out of a cardboard box before I gave up my cat. If you don't feel this way about pets, don't buy one.

If you already have a pet, find a friend or family member SEVERAL YEARS ahead of time who is willing to take your pet if you die or "move away" and don't want it anymore.

Our family recently relocated from Manitoba to Newfoundland for job-related reasons. We took all of our pets with us.

However, this was not without some substantial cost. Westjet charged us $50. per cat (we have 2), and wouldn't even take our dog because of his size. We had to fly him through Air Canada Cargo, which necessitated the purchase of a giant sized crate ($500.oo) and thrice the price of Westjet Cargo's cost of flight ($1000.oo).

This is not an inconsiderable sum to consider for somebody who had a secure job before the move. However, for somebody who hasn't the resources necessary to allow such costs, it becomes a large consideration whether to take a pet, or leave them behind.

We were lucky.