Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America

Student projects

Recently a number of schools have added classes that involve their students editing the 'pedia for class credit. Some are focusing on Indigenous articles, such as, Gender roles among the indigenous peoples of North America and Medicine man (where thankfully changes have so far been limited to students' sandboxes). Unfortunately, a number of these new users are proposing inappropriate overhauls to articles. Looking over the attempted edits and sourcing, there have been a lot of issues with past-tensing of Natives and Native cultures, inappropriate sources being inserted, along with other inaccurate content and in many cases a refusal to engage with other editors. Please keep an eye out for this stuff. Right now there's a discussion on Indigenous girl's talk page about some of it. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 18:35, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

List 'em here. I usually revert and if the content is REALLY bad, I post a note to the instructor's page, putting the blame whee it belongs. Montanabw^(talk) 05:53, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Witch (Navajo)‎‎, Skin-walker‎‎ and other Dineh-related articles

Could use more eyes. There is currently an AfD going on for the latter, as well. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 15:43, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Good, these need to go. They are filled with conjecture. Yuchitown (talk) 07:39, 3 April 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Indigenous articles over-reliant on a single source

And in some cases, an outdated, non-Native anthro source. Some include huge swathes of text with either zero cites, or the same cite over and over again, which seems promotional for the one author cited. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 19:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

• Weyekin - made massive cuts, see talk page for suggested merge. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 20:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
• Two-Spirit identity theory - after reviewing and summarizing on talk page, redirected to Two-Spirit. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 20:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

This book is being relied on very heavily in the Native American religion article, and in some cases is the sole source for some dubious content: Waldman, Carl. (2009). Atlas of the North American Indian. Checkmark Books. New York. ISBN 978-0-8160-6859-3. Anyone familiar with it and is it WP:RS? - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 17:28, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I have this edition. A more recent edition is on google books. The copy I have is a decent general overview work for high school kids. It's not in-depth, and I'm sure there are errors, but the author does appear to be trying to avoid the usual bullshit. The article cites pp. 229-231 mostly, and though p. 229 isn't visible in the Google books version, 230 and 231 are, so you can check directly if the material is verified by the source. I mean, basically, they try to summarize peyote in three paragraphs, for example, so inevitably there is oversimplification. For what it is, it's not horrible, but it can't be used for sophisticated analysis, only for a real basic overview. Montanabw^(talk) 05:48, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Compiling a list of indigenous authors

Greetings! First of all, full disclosure that I'm new to editing Wikipedia and contributing to a project. I am a librarian at the University of Saskatchewan currently undertaking a project to collect and organize a list of aboriginal authors and storytellers. I will likely be making regular contributions and edits to this page: List_of_writers_from_peoples_indigenous_to_the_Americas. Compiling this list is a difficult task as verifying ancestry is not always easy. I think a discussion may be warranted on the "best" method for verification and acceptance to the list, though I'd like to know what others involved in the project think. P.S. The end goal of this project is to publish a web page that includes the list along with pertinent links to our library's catalogue entries for the respective authors. This resource will aid teacher candidates in the ITEP program at U of S in their resource-finding for classroom instruction. As I work on my list I will do the best I can to keep the existing list (linked above) up to date, and vice versa. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Klockwerk (talk) 19:24, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Start with people who are enrolled tribal members. Easiest to verify. Then expand from there. There are a lot of people who claim Native ancestry but it's a marketing ploy, IMHO (or a very distant relative and little actual culture carried through to the present). Montanabw^(talk) 05:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

There's already quite a bit of discussion about criteria for inclusion to List_of_writers_from_peoples_indigenous_to_the_Americas, as on well as most other lists of ingenious people on Wikipedia. Just check the archives on the talk page. If ancestry cannot be verified, then the person can't be added. One thing to bear in mind: Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. An individual has to be notable and preferably have an article to be added to a list on Wikipedia. So if you wish to compile a compendium of all Indigenous writers of the America, setting up a Wordpress or similar free site might be preferable and can still allow for other participants to contribute. Yuchitown (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Request for comments on Project Proposal: Outreach to recruit more Native American editors

I have made an idea for a project with the aim engage with Native American tribal communities to attract more editors from those communities, in order to ensure better representation of Native American topics on wikipedia. I am requesting a Wikimedia grant to attend to events organized by The Language Conservancy this summer in order to reach out to activists and community organizers (particularly local tribal museums and libraries, as well as language teachers and activists), and assess if they are interested in a more sustained engagement with Wikipedia. Please feel free to comment at: [[1]].·maunus · snunɐɯ· 16:30, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I think it's a great idea to go to the tribes. Montanabw^(talk) 05:34, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Two Native Wikipedians that signed on recently include User talk:Chickasaw Steve and User:Ogahpah (Quapaw). They might be good people to give a template letting them know about this Wikipedia group or opportunities for Native Wikipedians. Yuchitown (talk) 17:21, 15 April 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Band government?

Please take a look at Talk:Mi'kmaq#Band government?. Are the Mi'kmaq a band government? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 16:17, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Category:Religious figures of the indigenous peoples of North America

The articles in this cat could use going over by some more folks experienced with ceremonial/spiritual terminology and doing some cleanup. I'll try to get to some, but the more culturally-savvy eyes on these the better. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 18:56, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

• I have moved "Shamanism among Eskimo peoples" to Alaskan Native religion, and done some minor cleanup. It needs a lot more. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 19:19, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
• Category:Shamanism of the Americas and Category:Inuit shamans. Help. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 19:26, 23 April 2016 (UTC) ETA, tackled the latter. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 19:53, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Post links for faster service...  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 23:15, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Tried. It puts this page in the category and doesn't show the link. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 00:42, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Do it this way: Put a colon in front: Category:Shaminism of the Americas. Montanabw^(talk) 03:19, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Odd Northeastern Woodlands "tribe" articles

I poked around the Indigenous peoples of the Northeastern Woodlands (and the corresponding Classification_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Northeastern_Woodlands). Several listings were repeated and miscategorized. It appears different authors pushed for the notion of Wappinger and Quinniac confederacies, but many of the same "tribes" were listed and Wappinger, a relatively obscure Munsee-speaking Lenni Lenape subgroup, was incorrectly categorized as "Mahican." I cited the new categorization. Stumbling around, I came across the worse collection of articles I've ever seen on Wikipedia—stubs with deadlinked Angelcities sites and genealogy forums—or no citations at all. Much of the information is questionable. I'm amazed that these articles lasted as long as they did, but maybe nobody looks at them? I nominated several for speedy deletion because I could find no solid evidence in published literature that these are actually tribes (some of villages, some are chief's names). The names are place names so are mentioned, but even as Indian tribes they only appear in lists of names with little-to-no solid information about them. I nominated Totoket, Mattabesset, and Hammonasset (people) for deletion. The Acquackanonk tribe and Massaco would be possible candidates for merging to Lenape.

Anyway, if anyone is more familiar with the region, could you look over Category:Native American tribes in New Jersey and Category:Native American tribes in Connecticut? Thank you, Yuchitown (talk) 04:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Mystery possibly solved. It seems like there's a bunch of bad information in The Encyclopedia Americana from 1920, which Access Genealogy and other forums have picked up since it's in public domain. Yuchitown (talk) 17:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Article: Plenty Coups (Crow)

Hello, I'm new to actually talking on Wikipedia and I am *petrified* of "editing" someone's article that they have worked really hard on. However, I am in the midst of writing a graduate paper on Indigenous Peoples Autobiography (course work not thesis) and I have just recently read Hertha Dawn Wong's "Sending My Heart Back Across the Years" Oxford University Press (US), 1992. ISSN/ISBN 9781601298164 (electronic format through ProQuest Ebrary).

In the article on Plenty Coups in Section 4 "Legacy" and under "Autobiography" Sentence 2 states: "Two Crow Indians, Coyote-runs and Braided-scalp-lock (aka Frank Shively), assisted Plenty Coups in recounting his life to Linderman." However, on page 93 of Wong's book she writes that "Relying on an interpreter, Braided-Scalp-Lock, ..." I believe (because I don't have the book in front of me, just my notes) that on page 92 (possibly) and/or page 93 that Plenty Coups was "attended" by Coyote Runs and Plain Bull. This was to help Plenty Coups "remember" and to validate/verify Plenty Coups' memories as being true.

I'm not sure how "important" this is on the scale of priority. But I thought I would mention it.

216.211.58.147 (talk) 07:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)Charmaine Barton216.211.58.147 (talk) 07:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

You should be be bold and make the appropriate edits to the article. Yuchitown (talk) 08:19, 11 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Great Peace of Montreal signatures

I found on the French Wikipedia that the article for the Great Peace of Montreal had all the Tribe signatures digitized so I was able to move and translate them over to the English article. I went ahead and put a few of the images on specific articles where there were little or no images (like Piankeshaw), but I wanted to drop a note here in case anyone else knew of any articles that could benefit from them. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 19:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Question on that article: In the lead, "The French, allied to the Hurons and the Algonquians, provided 16 years of peaceful relations and trade before war started again." Our 1717 article doesn't mention any wars with the French and Native Americans. And the Fox War (the Fox are Algonquians) started in 1712. What 16 years are indicated and what war ended them? Rmhermen (talk) 21:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Personally I'm not familiar with the treaty and haven't done any research. The only editing I've done on the article is just adding the existing pictures from the French Wikipedia and put the infobox template on there. Deflagro ^Contribs/_Talk 21:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Chief White Eagle

This article is in error...Basil F. Heath was born in London and is of Brazilian and English heritage. The daughter of his sister, Valerie Peterson (mentioned on the entry), has his English birth certificate and family history. How Can this entry be corrected? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_White_Eagle Laamka (talk) 12:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)laamka

@Laamka: You can click "edit" and change it yourself, but for the changes to stay, you will need a citation. Has anyone written about this? Is the birth certificate published online or in print media where others can see it and verify that it's a reliable source? - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 15:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I haven't read every source thoroughly yet, but so far it looks like we have a number of problems here. I don't see any Indigenous sources. I don't see any evidence that any tribe or nation claimed this individual. I only see human interest pieces in non-Native media that look to me to rely soley on his or his wife's claims. Even if he was Mohawk (which looks to me to be unlikely), we don't use titles or honorifics in page names on Wikipedia. I'm thinking there's a lot that needs to be fixed here. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 15:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Articles like these are challenges, since there's barely any published, secondary sources about this guy—mainly blogs. The newspaper articles echo his purported bio. I tried to find a "facts disputed" template to post at the top of the article but couldn't find one (surely there is one). @Laamka:, if you are in touch with the sister, could you convince her to publish an article in a relevant newspaper? Yuchitown (talk) 15:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Editing now. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 16:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Saved. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 16:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

@CorbieVreccan: Are primary documents acceptable as proof? My friend is the niece of Basil F. Heath and has him on a family tree on Ancestry.com and has his birth record, birth certificate and immigration ship log. If she makes the tree public, does that count as a reference? Laamka (talk) 21:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)Laamka

While I personally think a well-sourced tree would be useful, I think there's a general reluctance on WP to use ancestry.com, mostly because many trees there aren't well-sourced, or contain inaccuracies. But that would be a start if it's sourced to legal documents, especially if we could link to those documents. She could also set up a personal site where she scans in the documents and states what they are. As a relative with access to documents, her official site would carry more weight than an unrelated person. Ideally, I agree with Yuchitown that giving an interview and a copy of the documents to a journalist could result in some very solid sourcing. That's what Iron Eyes Cody's siblings did after he died, and those sources are now used in his article. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 21:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

@Laamka: - I just heard back from a First Nations genealogist who has also found evidence, including source documents, that this guy was born in England. He was also married in the US, in either Indiana or Illinois, not on any reserve in Canada. This lines up with all the other ways in which his presentation did not reflect First Nations culture. I think we are looking at a whole pandora's box of fabrications here. It will have to be documented in a manner suitable for WP:RS citation, but as I'm checking the sourcing on the article now and most of it goes to dead links, this may wind up with him being most notable for pulling an Iron Eyes Cody/Grey Owl. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 17:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

@CorbieVreccan: Based on your earlier suggestions, my friend and I have begun to build a website with links to documents. We just started and have more to add, but here it is so far https://basilheath.wordpress.com/ Will this kind of documentation be suitable? He has tribal blood, but that is from South America, not North America. By the way, that marriage in Indiana was his second marriage and I believe that wife, Roberta Hannaway, may have been North American First Nation. 17:42, 18 May 2016 (UTC) Laamka (talk) 17:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, blogs are generally not deemed reliable sources, though with an extensive bibliography to hardcopy sources, maybe. (I wonder if "White Eagle" is the individual who gave rise to the insult "culture vulture"? ) Montanabw^(talk) 23:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

To make it more likely to be acceptable as a WP source, you can use the wordpress software for formatting the website code, but you'll want to buy a real domain name, and source everything on the site extensively to solid documentation. All the writing should be credited to the authors in question, with bios that indicate why they are authorities on this topic. Scan in copies of the source documents if you have them. Post photos if that's all you have. If you have hardcopies of the documents, get them notarized if possible. Make it as thorough and official as you can. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 16:52, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits over at Navajo

Could use more eyes. Especially on these:[2] and the hugely-unsourced article, Diné Bahaneʼ, a link to which the user swapped in in place of the link to Navajo ethnobotany. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 16:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

The info added looks pretty accurate actually. Yuchitown (talk) 21:56, 1 June 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Black drink again

There are some users who seem determined to rely on outdated anthro books and other misinformation... this is going to result in people being poisoned. This is a serious liability issue for WP. I've gone through this article and done cleanup before, but don't have time right now. @Indigenous girl: and other ethnobotany peeps, we could really use expert input here. I'll go flag the article for that, as well. I am very concerned at the inaccurate stuff that is being re-added. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 21:10, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

If it has medical health implications, perhaps a ping to Doc James and other folks at MEDRS is in order. They will shut down un-scienfic claims fast. That said, they are not always gentle about it, but if you want to ping an MD, Doc is, literally, your guy. Montanabw^(talk) 02:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Project: Atikamekw knowledge, culture and language

Hello, you are welcome to have a look at the project Atikamekw knowledge, culture and language in Wikimedia projects. We are looking for endorsements and contributions! Best, Seeris (talk) 04:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Canadian Indian residential school system page

Hello, everyone. I invite you to visit the Canadian Indian residential school system's Talk page where I have started a discussion about developing the page to increase its current C-Class rating to Good article status. Suggestions for improvement, editing assistance and general feedback are all very much welcome. --Dnllnd (talk) 13:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Anyone in the mood for massive cleanup?

Boldness called for at Native American Music Awards, Jim Boyd (musician), and I'd also look into connected articles. I've recently noticed these look to have been largely written by a spammy COI spa, and need to be overhauled possibly to the point of WP:TNT. See flags up top and edit history. Thanks. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 22:24, 29 June 2016 (UTC)