Template talk:Discrimination

Please use Template talk:Discrimination for discussion of this template

Greetings! The discussion of issues with this template should be held at the main templates talk page here --> Template talk:Discrimination. Benjiboi 02:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean Template talk:Discrimination sidebar, since that is evidently supposed to be a copy of this (and so far has a lot more talk)? Zodon (talk) 09:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Speciesism: include or not?

Speciesism is also a form of discrimination, but against other living beings. The human being consider itself superior to other species and so gets engaged on animal mass killing (livestock, vivisection, hunting etc.).

Can we add it to the template? Robfbms (talk) 00:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

- It certainly has more sensible place in a discussion of social justice than "pedophobia" (aka "justice against anti-child fascists") 59.167.111.154 (talk) 02:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as anti-gay hate groups

List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as anti-gay hate groups was added with this edit. I don't have a problem with the article being included in the template, but I have problems with not ascribing the list to the SPLC - see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Link dispute (another anti-gay hate group one) on Template:LGBT. In the absence of a compromise naming, it would seem that we need to default to the article's name. StAnselm (talk) 07:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

It's good that you follow that discussion which roughly leans away from ascribing this to the acronym "SPLC" which the vast majority of readers would have absolutely no idea to what it would refer. A very bad idea for any template. Insomesia (talk) 07:22, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The discussion there will be closed in good time, and arguments will be weighed rather than votes. But I have removed the entry altogether here - I am not opposed to its inclusion in principle, but I would prefer it to be excluded rather than included in a non-neutral form. Hence, it should remain unlisted until we can achieve a consensus about how to list it. StAnselm (talk) 07:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

That's not how consensus works - you get to delete whenever you don't get your way - please stop lest we have to start another community discussion to help clear up yet another issue that you seem to disagree with. Insomesia (talk) 07:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Have you read the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Link dispute (another anti-gay hate group one) on Template:LGBT? Have you listened to all the editors who spoke in favour of mentioning the SPLC in the piping? Are you quite sure you are not just wanting your way? StAnselm (talk) 07:36, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

You know I'm just thinking but isn't there a general list of groups designated as hate groups by the SPLC? Why not use that instead?-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 07:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Same difference really, but you bring a good point that both should be added. Insomesia (talk) 08:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not interested in arguing with you anymore, nor am I invested in edit-warring. Interactions with you seem fruitless and your tactic of simply deleting things you don't like sets a poor tone for cooperation. Time and time again your judgement in this entire area has proven to be against community consensus so I will continue to advocate for common sense and following guidelines such as Egg and Linkclarity that you seem to ignore. If I feel it worth the energy a topic ban may be the next step or maybe the community will tire of having to force you to cooperate with one process after another per WP:Competence. The choice is yours. Insomesia (talk) 08:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to propose a topic ban. In any case, I am glad that you won't be edit-warring over this. But again I ask, have you read Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Link dispute (another anti-gay hate group one) on Template:LGBT? You do realise, don't you, that, so far, five editors have spoken in favour of the SPLC wording, and five have spoken against? StAnselm (talk) 08:04, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I really strongly feel that List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups would be better than the anti-gay version because it is more inclusive.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 08:15, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree - I just think that to be neutral it needs to mention the SPLC in the piping. StAnselm (talk) 08:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

And once again I would agree with you if there were other list of hate groups on wikipedia. Currently there isn't and since they are at VERY LEAST one of the most imporant organizations on the subject and they have scholars there who study what a hate group is for a living they are at least one of the authorities on what a hate group is. If we had list of hate groups provided by other organizations for example the ADL. I would be completely with you.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 08:44, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

And I'm wondering if there is any way we can reach a compromise. I thought about creating List of organizations designated by Hope not Hate as hate groups for this very reason, but I can't find much in the way of third party references, and creating a list of borderline notability would be borderline pointy. The only other thing is to wait for the RfC to play out, but it looks like no consensus at the moment. I have no idea what that would mean for the template listings. StAnselm (talk) 09:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘That is exactly the point. We only have one article on all of Wikipedia about anti-gay hate groups and that's the one. If we get a second article then a debate may be warranted as to which or how to link them, until then we only have the one article on this subject. Insomesia (talk) 20:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I feel very strongly that using the anti-gay hate groups list would only be useful on an LGBT template. This is NOT an LGBT template this is the discrimination template use the general hate groups list NOT the anti-gay list.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 21:50, 4 October 2012 (UTC) th

I agree with Rainbowofpeace that it is better to mention hate groups as a generic related topic rather than just one type of hate group. I also think that it would be better to link to hate groups rather than just a list of such groups since that is clearly the lead article for the topic and it should lead naturally to the list anyway. --Mirokado (talk) 22:13, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly, and I have gone ahead and added the link to both templates. StAnselm (talk) 01:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Add

Discrimination against red-haired people, albinos, and those who have a circadian rhythem sleep "disorder" called "Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome" or "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder"; suffering the bias of being forced to live in a dominantly diurnal society, surrounded by people who say "you're wasting daylight", "you are sleeping in, obviously you are lazy", "you must have criminal intent to be out at night", "only serious crime happens at night, dont stab me", "you are wearing all black, which house are you robbing?"...etc. Being Left-handed, having exclusive same-gender attraction, nocturnal, and neoPagan I know the difference between non-issue, and "sky is falling" ego-projecting assholes. 71.119.48.19 (talk) 04:59, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Bias in Solutions section

The solutions section is clearly biased as it assumes a culturally heterogeneous environment, as in the United States, rather than a culturally homogenous environment, as in Japan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.174.58.196 (talk) 19:18, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

What does that have to do with adding ethnopluralism as a solution to discrimination? It's obviously not.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Ethnopluralism

Ethnopluralism is a solution in the sense that it suggests protecting the culture of each ethnic group, potentially reducing the perceived privilege of one group - from the article ... stress that each ethnic group and racial group should be considered equal on its own merit.Jonpatterns (talk) 09:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Please cite independent reliable sources that support the notion that it is a countermeasure to discrimination. I should add that white and other separatist movements probably make similar implausible claims that their ideology is a solution to discrimination. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:33, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Template headings

Below I have list the headings in the template, with a description of my understanding of what should be listed there-

• General forms - generic forms discrimination
• Social - specific beliefs held by people that are discriminatory
• Manifestations - actions carried out because of those beliefs
• Discriminatory policies - self explanatory
• Countermeasures - self explanatory
• Related topics - self explanatory

Do people agree, or maybe you have a different interpretation? Jonpatterns (talk) 11:21, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Cronyism, name and shame

@Rainbowofpeace: Cronyism doesn't belong on the template unless "people I don't know personally" is some sort of identifiable, marginalized group that can be discriminated against, and "name and shame" isn't a form of discrimination at all. Murder music is something I'd at least consider including if it had its own article, but even the article on opposition to it is quite short; it does not seem to belong in a top-level template of this kind. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Roscelese and thanks for your prompt reply. Name and Shame I have no interest in being in the template. If you wish to remove it by all means do so. Cronyism (and its related cousin Nepotism) to me are about using personal relations even when someone more qualified comes along due to them being family or friends. If I were an employer at a law firm and stated I would rather hire my friend Michelle because that she was my friend rather than Rachael who had a law degree and had passed the bar that would be Cronyism. As for Murder Music it is clearly a form of discrimination. Its advocates harming people based on sexual orientation. May I say I was happy with your additions of Feminism as well as the Gender wage gap. Thank you!-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 01:26, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

No version of the word discriminat[e/ion/ing/ory] appears at cronyism. Navbox doesn't define, it navigates between defined subjects. Let's take the question of whether it's discrimination to that talk page before restoring it here. --— Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 02:02, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't think it's necessary to believe that cronyism is a good thing to note that it nonetheless doesn't fall under (forgive the quick quoting of the Wikipedia definition, but others too) "action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice." That's why I noted in my previous comment that "people I don't know" isn't a discrete group that I can discriminate against. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:04, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Please, note that discrimination not only disparages certain groups but can also hold certain groups higher. In this case we are not talking about discrimination against "people you don't know personally", we are talking about giving a certain amount of favoritism towards friends and the fact of the matter is it can lead to people being raised up because of that.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 06:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

It sounds like you're using your own personal definition here. I suggest providing several reliable sources. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:16, 12 February 2015 (UTC)