Wikipedia:XfD today

This page transcludes all of the deletion debates opened today on the English-language Wikipedia, including articles, categories, templates, and others, as a convenience to XfD-watchers. Please note that because this material is transcluded, watchlisting this page will not provide you with watchlist updates about deletions; WP:DELT works best as a browser bookmark checked regularly.

Speedy deletion candidates

Candidates for speedy deletion

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Draft:Holmes Place

Seán Doyle (footballer)

Tiernan Garvey

Articles

Guide to deletion

Sani Umar Rijiyar Lemo

Sani Umar Rijiyar Lemo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I have TNTed the biography to remove material that didn't belong such as a list of books he's read, people who have taught him and student he has taught.

The original draft is a translation from https://www.alummarhausa.com.ng/2020/07/tarihin-sheik-dr-muhammad-sani-umar-rijiyar-lemu.html

The sources do not seem reliable and talk about him in a promotional manner.

My before search was difficult, but I didn't find anything that stood out as the kind of coverage that would meet WP:GNG or WP:NPROF. I can't tell whether his writings might make him notable.

I'd welcome input from people with expertise in Islamic studies. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:07, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Islam, Nigeria, and Saudi Arabia. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:07, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy keep Keep — Recipients of the Order of the Niger meet WP:ANYBIO#1. The subject of this article received the award. Shoerack (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  I had considered that, but like any country's honours, there are different levels, with the lower levels being awarded to hundreds of people a year and many thousands over the years, so not sufficient in itself for every awardee to warrant an article about them on Wikipedia. In any event, WP:ANYBIO does not automatically confer notability. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 21:48, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea where or how you have considered the award, as it seems clear that you did not consider that in your nomination statement. That said, a WP:BEFORE shows that the subject is a recipeint of Order of the Niger. Orders awarded by a sovereign state are considered notable enough to meet WP:ANYBIO. The Order of the Niger is Nigeria's equivalent of the Awards and decorations of the United States government,and the Orders, decorations, and medals of the United Kingdom, and these are generally sufficient to pass WP:ANYBIO.Shoerack (talk) 18:53, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you provide sources that talk about the individual? The award is likely notable, but we need things about the person, not reports of what he's said about things. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

@Shoerack: At the point of nomination, I had been unable to verify that he had received the award, as what appeared to be the definitive list didn't include him. See my edit summary when I tagged it as citation needed. I have reviewed plenty bios where the recipient had for example received an MBE in the UK, but as there are over 100,000 such award holders, it isn't sufficiently selective to be a guaranteed route to notablity, even if it is an indicator. More secondary coverage was required, per Oaktree, though I note the article's author Gwanki added some directly after my nomination, which I've not yet looked at in depth. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:32, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Notability is not about sources present in an article. Asserting that sources aren't there at the time of nomination isn't sufficient ground for nomination for deletion. There has to be a reasonable search which would, in this case, include sources in Hausa language. That said, OON is one of Nigeria's highest awards, and that is sufficient for the subject to meet WP:ANYBIO#1. If a subject meets WP:ANYBIO, it does not have to meet WP:GNG. Shoerack (talk) 16:42, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I understand the importance of a before search, and did one, as noted in my nomination rationale.

Your assertion that "Orders awarded by a sovereign state are considered notable enough to meet WP:ANYBIO" are not supported by experience - see the following random examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

By the way, your Speedy keep !vote doesn't appear to meet any of the WP:SPEEDYKEEP criteria. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. This is helpful. I believe the award combined with the BBC source and other sources in Hausa are sufficient to establish notability. I have changed my WP:SPEEDYKEEP to "keep." It would have been "strong keep," but your argument is plausible. Shoerack (talk) 18:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:49, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: The award implies notability, but without coverage, there is no article... This is typical [1], he speaks to the press about xyz subject as an expert. I'm not seeing much ABOUT him as a person. Oaktree b (talk) 15:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

That you do not understand the contents of non-English sources does not make a subject not notable. Shoerack (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I tried in French language African press sources, they also don't mention him. There is more French in Africa then English, and still nothing about this person. Oaktree b (talk) 21:25, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hausa is a language spoken in Nigeria, and it has nothing to do with the French language. Shoerack (talk) 09:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't speak Hausa, so I can only access En and Fr African media. Oaktree b (talk) 22:40, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

You should not express strong opinions or evaluate sources in languages you neither speak nor understand. Shoerack (talk) 10:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment: Pinging a native speaker of Hausa language, Ammarpad, to help evaluate the sources. Regards. Shoerack (talk) 16:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

  I checked the current sources in the article and majority look valid to me. I will support keep. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: The subject pass WP:ANYBIO by virtue of receiving a Notable award, and covered by secondary independent sources such as BBC Hausa, Legit and Aminiya of Daily Trust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hackesan (talk • contribs) 16:52, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• I haven't looked for sources, so the subject may or may not pass the general notability guideline. I would however point out that he has the grade of officer in the Order of the Niger which, if our article on the order is to be believed, is equivalent to an OBE in the United Kingdom. That has bever been held to be enough for WP:ANYBIO. A subject must be at least a CBE (commander) to qualify. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:02, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NotAGenious (talk) 13:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel

Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Please don't shoot the messenger. This article is a summary WP:POVFORK of various tangentially-related pages and is full of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. For example, "so-and-so body says X is a universal right." Then, "Israel does XX", which is implied as a violation of the previous sentence. The entire article is like this. WP:TNT. Longhornsg (talk) 04:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Israel and Palestine. Longhornsg (talk) 04:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep There was no page about the lengthy Israeli human rights violations against Palestinians before the creation of this article. Neither Human rights in the State of Palestine nor Human rights in Israel seem like the correct article to add this information. At present, there are many scattered articles with information about said human rights violations. Similar articles like this are present in Wikipedia e.g. Human rights violations by the CIA.Crampcomes (talk) 04:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Obviously pretty much all of the content was copied from various Wikipedia articles (without the required attribution), as there's 272 broken Harvard citations. — Diannaa (talk) 14:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

  This issue has been fixed.Crampcomes (talk) 15:08, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep The article does need a fair amount of work to get it in shape, so that it is less of a laundry list and more focused. The cats organize via WB and Gaza and we might do the same, for instance. There should be a ready availability of scholarly sourcing on the subject that deals with the subject more in the meta and less in the weeds. The tangentially-related pages will need to reflect a summary of and wikilink to this article eventually. I see no good reason not to have a page like this, the need for which arises primarily due to the extended occupation of Palestinian territory and Israeli practices in relation thereto. Selfstudier (talk) 17:41, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Existing articles outline a range of specific issues, but as it stands, it's like having articles for raven, penguin, and chicken but no article on birds. It's important to help readers see the forest for the trees and understand the larger context. As an editor noted on the talk page, the article's text seems to be primarily lifted from the relevant sections in Israeli occupation of the West Bank which is already too long. Note that page does not have a NPOV tag, and was recently reviewed for GA status. Definitely some work is needed, but it's absolutely not a TNT situation. See also: Accusations of ExxonMobil human rights violations in Aceh, Human rights abuses in Balochistan, Human rights violations at Guantánamo Bay detention camp (for precedents re: other articles of this type). As an aside, I question whether it's even definitionally possible to have a WP:POVFORK of various ... pages since POV-forking usually implies a content fork from a single page. WillowCity^(talk) 13:14, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per WillowCity and Crampcomes. This can be improved to be a useful summary article, and we do have similarly various pages on human rights violations in certain areas. Looking at Google Scholar, the topic seems to pass WP:GNG. Also look at Google Books and look at Google News. starship.paint (RUN) 14:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. Yes, one could reasonably argue this page is a content fork of Human rights in the State of Palestine or Human rights in Israel, but this page has a different focus. My very best wishes (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  • It seems that Human rights in the State of Palestine is more targeted towards actions that were by Palestinian authorities, which makes sense. starship.paint (RUN) 00:27, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
    • I agree. This is a unique political situation when we do need such third page. If they followed through with one-state solution or two-state solution, that would be another story. But both "solutions" seem to be dead. My very best wishes (talk) 00:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
• Merge to Human rights in the State of Palestine and Human rights in Israel. This page is an obvious content fork of Human_rights_in_Israel#Human_rights_in_the_occupied_territories. It is common practice that the human rights articles are organized by the country or a territory. If the violations had happen at the occupied territories, they belong to page Human rights in the State of Palestine, and so on. Does it matter who committed the violations? Yes, of course. But this should be described at the proper page. It is another matter that page Human rights in the State of Palestine might need to be renamed.My very best wishes (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  Occupation is not common practice, that's the difference here. Selfstudier (talk) 15:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

The State of Palestine is occupied. So what? We have page Human rights in the State of Palestine where this content belongs. My very best wishes (talk) 16:41, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

A lot of it, has for a long time been included in Human rights in Israel so it is easy to see the confusion caused by the occupation. Selfstudier (talk) 17:04, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Meaning that there is already a content overlap between pages Human rights in the State of Palestine and Human rights in Israel. Do we need to resolve it by having 3rd page? My very best wishes (talk) 18:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

As I said in my !vote, there is work to be done, including clearing up the duplication/overlap etcetera, such that this becomes "main" and the others only need summaries/wikilinks. Selfstudier (talk) 18:41, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I think this is bad idea. The "occupied territories" are considered a part of Israel, or at least they are treated as such on our pages, i.e. Israel#Israeli-occupied_territories. Based on that, Human rights in Israel is our main page on this subject, while Human rights in the State of Palestine is a legitimate sub-page of that page, even though there is a significant duplication in section Human_rights_in_Israel#Human_rights_in_the_occupied_territories. However, this page, i.e. "Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel" is definitely a content fork. It should be merged to other pages, not the other way around. My very best wishes (talk) 17:09, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

See? Even you are confused about which page it should be in, lol. The ongoing occupation messes things up, better to sit in its own page and links coming in. Selfstudier (talk) 17:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

No, I am not confused. Let's consider an analogy. We have Human rights in Ukraine. It has no section "Human rights at the occupied Ukrainian territories", but it could, and we could even create such sub-page. Let's assume it exists. However, in such case, yet another additional page entitled Human right violations against Ukrainians by Russia would be a content fork. My very best wishes (talk) 17:23, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

The cases are not exactly the same and let's not assume it exists, haha. If the Russian occupation continues for 50 years plus, then there would certainly be a case for a separate page about that (probably would be there right now if the Russians were anywhere near as bad as the Israelis). Selfstudier (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

You say if the Russians were anywhere near as bad as the Israelis. Khmm... My very best wishes (talk) 17:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

There is a big difference in the demographics. As I said, the cases are not really the same. Still, Civilian deaths in 1 month of Israeli attacks on Gaza top entire Russia-Ukraine war toll so, y'know... Selfstudier (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

No, Russian forces killed more than 20,000 civilians only in Mariupol during a month [2]. Also, this data by a Hamas-controlled organization are just as "reliable" as data by Russian MoD ("According to Gaza's Ministry of Health"). My very best wishes (talk) 18:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

A discussion for another day, meanwhile I am quite content that Israeli abuses, of which there are a lot, over an extended period of time, are worth their own page. Selfstudier (talk) 18:30, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, we have Category:Human rights abuses by country, but again, they are organized by country, e.g. "Human rights abuses in Afghanistan‎". As about by, yes, we have Human rights abuses by the Taliban, but it redirects to page Taliban. I hope we are not making the point that Israel is worse than Taliban. My very best wishes (talk) 19:17, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall mentioning the Taliban, just the lengthy occupation. Selfstudier (talk) 19:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I said "we". We/WP now have "Human rights violations by" articles only with regard to CIA and Israel. Meaning a possible WP:NPOV issue. "Human rights abuses by" are mostly redirects. My very best wishes (talk) 19:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the pertinent point is the occupation and the length of it. I don't understand what you mean by a NPOV issue, if you have contradictory sourcing, then add that. Selfstudier (talk) 19:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

We do not have pages on other countries entitled "Human rights abuses by...", even North Korea, although we do have such categories. I am afraid we are pushing the position that Israel is the worst country in the world. Like you said: if the Russians were anywhere near as bad as the Israelis. My very best wishes (talk) 18:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I think you raise a very good point. Editors need to ponder the implications of this article. Coretheapple (talk) 21:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

We kept Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, so much for implications. starship.paint (RUN) 23:50, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I did not mean real life implications. But this and some other pages do strike me as examples of Wikipedia:Activism. My very best wishes (talk) 23:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as the whole content and title are an unbalanced point of view. The more neutrally titled Human rights in the State of Palestine could include these allegations. Allegations should be clarified as to who claims them, rather than presented as facts. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:06, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. There is an objection that the lead, for one, fails NPOV. What do we want there, the more drastically eloquent statement in the first reference by the United States Department of State?

Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings; arbitrary or unjust detention, including of Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories; restrictions on Palestinians residing in Jerusalem including arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy, family, and home; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and association; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; restrictions on freedom of expression and media including censorship; harassment of nongovernmental organizations; violence against asylumseekers and migrants; violence or threats of violence against Palestinians and members of national, racial, or ethnic minority groups; and labor rights abuses against foreign workers and Palestinian workers. Israel 2022 Human Rights Report: Executive Summary United States Department of State 2023 pp.1-69 pp.1-2.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nishidani (talk • contribs) 03:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per WillowCity and others. Problems noted above can be dealt with by editing, not deletion. --NSH001 (talk) 08:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
• Yet another Israel-Palestine content fork. We have so many articles with overlapping scopes. Israel and apartheid, Human rights in Israel, Israeli war crimes, Israeli-occupied territories, Anti-Palestinianism, Zionism as settler colonialism, Palestinian genocide accusation. Indeed, over half of this article's sections have hatnote links to other articles at the top. I simply do not see what was the need of another article saying what so many others do. Wikipedia does not fragmentise other conflicts to this excessive degree. It makes navigating articles about this topic needlessly confusing. Merge, into all relevant articles, or perhaps merge articles into here. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 11:25, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  I get this argument but I think many would agree that there are things sui generis about the AI/IP conflict that result in this fragmentation/overlapping, principally originating in the lengthy occupation. If editors were able to write a sensible article entitled Palestine and apartheid or Palestinian war crimes etcetera, they would probably do that too. Selfstudier (talk) 11:48, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

No doubt about that. We have Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel after all.

I agree that the exceptional length of this conflict contributes to us having a lot to talk about, including theorical and scholarly subjects and views. I still argue it's out of hand in Wikipedia. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 11:54, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to deletion, by the way. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. I also agree with WillowCity and the other members above. David A (talk) 14:25, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete. I agree with the nominator on a really new POVFORK. It's a very new package for old WP information. No objection to a merge, as suggested above, if there are relevant articles that do not yet contain this information for the umpteenth time. Delete is better. gidonb (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete as blatant POV fork. Coretheapple (talk) 15:53, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
  • It is not a POV fork because you're allowed to add content from reliable sources that says "Event X was not a human rights violation." I would encourage you to add such content. starship.paint (RUN) 00:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

    Sure, and the same can be said about any POV fork. Coretheapple (talk) 22:13, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

    Maybe this 'POV fork'? Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, main article 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. It seems you said then at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel: No valid reason has been presented to delete, this article. starship.paint (RUN) 15:09, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

    "It seems you said then...." Please don't personalize the discussion. Thanks in advance, but meanwhile please strike out your comment. Coretheapple (talk) 15:57, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

    Respectfully decline the request. starship.paint (RUN) 23:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as POV fork. I haven't found content which is not present in other articles listed by u:Super Dromaeosaurus but if it exists then it should be merged into those articles. Alaexis_¿question? 09:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Alaexis to clarify where do you think human rights violations by Israel against Gazans belongs: in Human rights in Israel or Human rights in the State of Palestine? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:36, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

  Human_rights_in_Israel#Human_rights_in_the_occupied_territories seems to be appropriate, in addition to articles about individual events such as the ongoing war and countless other articles discussing every possible aspect of this conflict (e.g., Blockade of the Gaza Strip). Alaexis_¿question? 09:38, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

• Comment A WP:POVFORK (read it please) "generally arise when contributors disagree about the content of an article or other page. Instead of resolving that disagreement by consensus, another version of the article (or another article on the same subject) is created to be developed according to a particular point of view." which is evidently not the case here. All that is happening is that unchallenged material from several articles is being consolidated for good reasons in a single article with a view to that article becoming the main article for the topic.Selfstudier (talk) 11:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The article is still a morass of WP:SYNTH. As one selected example from many available in the article, the Human_rights_violations_against_Palestinians_by_Israel#Targeted_assassinations is a collection of claims that editors have cobbled together into a claim that this is a collection of "human rights violations". However, nothing in the sourcing makes that connection. Textbook example of SYNTH. Unfortunately, this is rife throughout a heavily POV-written article. The notability may be there. Why I argue for a WP:TNT is how deeply embedded the SYNTH and POV is throughout. Longhornsg (talk) 12:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  That particular section is lifted verbatim from Israeli occupation of the West Bank where it is not disputed so the material is not in itself synth. If instead your argument is that including that material in the current article is not NPOV then that can be addressed by editing and is not a reason for deletion. In fact that material should be expanded with an explanation of when targeted killings are legal and when they are a breach of international humanitarian law. Selfstudier (talk) 13:22, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, that should be in the Targeted killings by Israel article, not an article about Israeli occupation or human rights violations. Do you really not see how this is SYNTH? Longhornsg (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  The material is mostly about targeted killings in Gaza! This is ridiculous. Longhornsg (talk) 14:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Strong, speedy keep. One of the most ridiculous and offensive attempts at elimination I have ever seen, not to mention disrespectful, censorious, and imposing of a particular point of view. The topic is clearly and indisputably notable, and the arguments for elimination are far from being substantiated. RodRabelo7 (talk) 12:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  Instead of WP:PA, care to explain why you believe policy-based deletion arguments are unsubstantiated instead of just saying a stream of invective? Editors can disagree on policy, but it’s important to AGF as you have not here. Longhornsg (talk) 12:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

That the article treats a conflict full of human suffering doesn't make the article untouchable and sacred, not at all. One can also make a point against propagating several articles talking about the same thing with little differences. How about editors work on existing articles instead of each of them writing their own articles, which of course is easier for them, and keeping this topic area nice and clean and compact and easy to read? Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 13:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The editor did not mention at all That the article treats a conflict full of human suffering? While I tend to agree about the multiplicity of articles in general, this is not a new article in that sense, it is merely the consolidation of material that is better treated in one location, while any overlaps and duplication are to be eliminated. Selfstudier (talk) 13:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The problem is that this article is not merely the consolidation of material from other articles. It's a SYNTHed together amalgamation of new material that is then awkwardly connected to existing articles. I would be making this argument no matter the POV or subject of the article. I can come to agree with the principle of such an index-like article, but unfortunately the deeply rampant synth is why TNT is the way to go. Longhornsg (talk) 13:50, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Actually identify the alleged synth, then we will see. I already dealt with one incorrect claim of synth above. Which "new material"? Selfstudier (talk) 13:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

This is part of the issue of having multiple, overlapping articles. First, that's in Israeli occupation of the West Bank, not Targeted killing by Israel, which is the article linked to in this mess of an article. Second, that section in the Israeli occupation article has nothing to do with the topic and shouldn't even be in there in the first place. Third, there's nothing in the content that connects targeted killings with human rights violations. It just lists a bunch of "scary" facts about targeted assassinations. This is just encyclopedic malpractice. Longhornsg (talk) 13:59, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The article merely needs editing. There is a bunch of HR related stuff in occupation of the WB article which is far too long as a result. Then there is another pile of stuff in the the Israel human rights article, out of date and misplaced. I already dealt with the targeted killings thing above, again the article just needs editing. Once it gets sorted out the encyclopedia will be better as a result.

And you have not identified the alleged synth as requested, just more hand waving. Selfstudier (talk) 14:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

This is tedious. I have several times. It's too bad we've decided to turn an encyclopedia into a mishmash of file folder of reports, not to inform in a NPOV manner but to advocate, but here we are. Longhornsg (talk) 14:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Handwave, handwave... Selfstudier (talk) 14:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I didn't say the editor mentioned that, but to me it is apparent they were arguing deleting an article about such an inflamatory topic would be an act of disrespect, which I find as a very weak and improper argument. this is not a new article in that sense, it is merely the consolidation of material that is better treated in one location, while any overlaps and duplication are to be eliminated so we merge other articles into here instead? I would be okay with that too. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 14:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

That would be the way to go, all the stuff in the Israel HR article could go apart from a very short summary/wikilink to the article here, ditto the occupation of WB article. Selfstudier (talk) 14:13, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Weak keep per WillowCity. There are some reliable sources that cite the occurrence of human rights violations, as The Guardian, UN, Human Righs Watch, so it is not a case of WP:OR. It is true that the article lacks impartiality, however, this problem can be remedied and there is no need for deletion, according to WP:POVDELETION. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 14:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

::Socialist press outlets are all anti-Semitic as a result of their ideology. Hitler in his grave is proud of the work of all these people who kept his ideology alive after endless times. This article is the gathering of all this anti-logical thinking professed by these types of people all over the world.Gantuze (talk) 22:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as blatant POV fork and clear political use of Wikipedia (Socialist Propaganda). It is nothing more than a combination of theories and whishful thinking without any logical sense, a great exercise of anti-Semitism professed worldwide today using invalid sources from the anti-Semitic socialist press, a war caused by the Palestinians who started the problem unilaterally by massacring babies and innocent people who were quiet in their corner and unilaterally invading. In other words, this article is illogical and should not even exist. It's a great old wives' tale. Gantuze (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: all seems well ordered and well cited, and the nom seems wholly lacking in substance. The claim of POVFORK is made, but no page is identified as being the page that this has forked from. The main nom motivation is therefore unsubstantiated. The topic is a notable one with a justifiable scope. Iskandar323 (talk) 21:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

::So, if you are part of the Palestine Project it is obvious that you support this anti-Semitic article. But it's an obvious conflict of interest.Gantuze (talk) 22:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Strong keep: I see no indication that this is a fork of any one article (and therefore not a POV fork), the topic is clearly notable, some of the arguments for deletion are that the title is biased, however, there are also articles that catagorize and list human rights abuses if they're significant enough to be notable. There's precedent, the topic is notable, it isn't a fork of anything, I see absolutely no reason or argument to delete this other than WP:IDONTLIKEITDarmaniLink (talk) 22:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

There is no abuse of human rights, there is defense of the State of Israel. Those who defend human rights for criminals, murderers and people who start wars for no reason are socialists, who are the current descendants of the Nazis, using social anti-logic.Gantuze (talk) 23:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Documented RS in the article say otherwise

If you disagree with the sources, you should gain consensus that the sources are invalid and should not be used. :) DarmaniLink (talk) 23:08, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox for your Zionism. Salmoonlight (talk) 23:15, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge as appropriate to Human rights in the State of Palestine and Human rights in Israel. An obvious POV CFORK.  // Timothy :: talk  03:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. This is clearly an important subject, and covered extensively in a large number of sources. It isn't restricted to either Israel or the OT, so merging into one of those is not optimal. Cleanup is required, but that has never been a reason for deletion. Zero^talk 10:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Gina Coladangelo

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• Articles for deletion/Gina Coladangelo
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• Articles for deletion/Gina Coladangelo (3rd nomination)

Gina Coladangelo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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As per WP:NOTINHERIT. Almost all the coverage relates to her notable husband. LibStar (talk) 01:56, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Keep, enough secondary cites to establish notability. Swan505 (talk) 03:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Keep: The references include significant coverage in major newspapers. Rublamb (talk) 00:35, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

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Yes the issue here is that the coverage of her almost always names her husband. Would she achieve the same coverage if she didn't have a notable husband? LibStar (talk) 02:47, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete There lots of coverage, most is about her having "broken the rules" during the covid lock downs... I'm not sure that alone makes her notable. Her career seems rather routine. If she had not "broken the rules" I don't think there would be enough based on the career alone to keep the article. Adding the scandal part to the story, I'm not sure that helps notability.Oaktree b (talk) 02:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

  She basically worked in marketing and communications, not terribly notable and very much a rather routine part of any company. She didn't create any award-winning adverts, coin a new slogan that stuck in the popular memory or do much of anything really, other than direct how corporate communications are worded and presented to the public. And the length of her career hasn't been terribly long either, meaning she's not been a "trail blazing" woman with over 40 yrs in the British ad industry. Just a mid -level marketing expert. Oaktree b (talk) 02:56, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete – Most sources are about her husband. I concur with Oaktree b as well. TLA (talk) 03:30, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep She is notable enough to meet WP:GNG, and yet is overshadowed by her connection to two more notable people. Even if we were to delete the article, we would have to have a redirect, but to whom? She was married to Oliver Tress from 2009 until 2021, and has since been with Matt Hancock. Looks 50/50 to me, so another argument in favour of keeping things as they are. Edwardx (talk) 12:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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Sandesh Lamsal

Sandesh Lamsal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This article was created as obvious self-promotion, but has since been cleaned from the most outrageous phrasing by others. However, I still can't see, or find, any reliable sourcing supporting notability. The references look like press releases at best. Bishonen | tålk 13:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Crypto Leaks

Crypto Leaks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet WP:GNG. Only secondary reliable SIGCOV only trivially mentions Crypto Leaks. The artticle almost exclusively covers one single leak and the consequences it had for the law firm.

The content would be better served in an article about the law firm and/or the leak, if that would be notable as a stand-alone article. AlexandraAVX (talk) 11:51, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Gavin Araujo

Gavin Araujo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. The citations only tell us that he went on some courses. My before search returned only routine coverage, news from a connected source e.g. clubs he was working for, or interviews. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 10:53, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Pickle Entertainment and Media

Pickle Entertainment and Media (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:CORP. "I'm not sure this is a notable organization. All the notability asserted is inherited from the films it's either producing or distributing (which is a big difference)." AShiv1212 (talk) 09:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Kalpataru Projects International

Kalpataru Projects International (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines for corporations, as explained in WP:NCORP and WP:ORGCRIT. Also note that page was created by a paid account. Charlie (talk) 09:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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The Pot Bears a Son

The Pot Bears a Son (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This sounds like it should be notable, but I couldn't verify that it is. Boleyn (talk) 09:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Hiroko Tsuji (musician)

Hiroko Tsuji (musician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This AFD is to follow up on comments made by User:Nuraa.sinora at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kento Masuda and by that user and others at the talk page. It appears that all the claims of importance are dubious or promotional (e.g. Global Music Awards) and I'm unaware of independent reliable sources. See also the corresponding Japanese AFD ja:Wikipedia:削除依頼/辻寛子 (deleted based on editors evaluating awards/honours and looking for other sources in Japanese). All content was contributed in 2016 by User:Orugoro's multiple accounts plus an IP 198.24.221.114. Adumbrativus (talk) 09:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Banjax

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Banjax (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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They don't appear to meet WP:NBAND or WP:GNG. There is some coverage, but I am not sure it is significant enough. It was found non-notable and deleted at AfD in 2006, when our standards for inclusion were considerably lower. Boleyn (talk) 09:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Mawlana Murad

Mawlana Murad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

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Historical scholarship does not document our subject except once but as per Wikipedia:Notability is not inherited, this is not enough. Fails WP:N with no significant level of coverage. Article contains too much Original Research. Jaunpurzada (talk) 14:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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Baku International Humanitarian Forum

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Baku International Humanitarian Forum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This was deleted in a 2012 AfD for failing to meet notability requirements. It was re-created by a new account in one of their first edits in 2018. There is nothing that indicates that this is a notable forum. There is no independent reliable sourcing of this initiative by the Russian and Azerbaijani states. The only coverage is by Russian and Azerbaijani state outlets. Thenightaway (talk) 11:23, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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Once Just

Once Just (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unref article on band who don't seem to meet WP:NBAND or WP:GNG. Possible WP:ATD is redirect to Sudden Death Records, I wouldn't suggest a merge as the information here is all unverified. There are assertions to notability here (e.g., songs charting) but nothing I could verify. Boleyn (talk) 08:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Bouriema Kimba

Bouriema Kimba (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No SIGCOV found in my searches – remaining source 3 is a blog, not usable to establish notability on Wikipedia. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 05:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment: He ran on par with a quite good 17-18 year old boy. But was not a world class runner, and was only inserted into various competition because Niger had to send someone. This means a lack of sporting achievements, which translated into a lack of coverage. Geschichte (talk) 20:38, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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Irma Carmona

Irma Carmona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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She doesn't appear to meet WP:ENT or WP:GNG. Has been in CAT:NN for 14 years, hopefully we can now get it resolved. Boleyn (talk) 08:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Beyond Desire

Beyond Desire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NFO and WP:NFSOURCES. I found no reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. I did a WP:BEFORE and found a suitable and reliable review from TV Guide. Needs one more suitable and reliable review per NFO, NFSOURCES and WP:NEXIST. The Film Creator (talk) 08:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep. Added a few sources to the page, including the TV Guide review mentioned above. See for yourself.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: There is also a review in the Montgomery Advertiser. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 12:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Sex and the Other Man

Sex and the Other Man (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article fails WP:NFO, WP:NFSOURCES and WP:GNG. I found no reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. Per WP:NEXIST, the sources have to be “suitable” and none of the sources are suitable or reliable enough. I did a WP:BEFORE and found one suitable and reliable review from TV Guide. Needs one more suitable and reliable review in order to be eligible. The Film Creator (talk) 08:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep. Added sources to the page, including TV Guide mentioned above. See for yourself.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  Excellent work, User:Mushy Yank. I speedy withdraw this nomination. The Film Creator (talk) 08:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Gerald C. Olesen

Gerald C. Olesen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Successful career, but I couldn't establish how he meets WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Has been in CAT:NN for 14 years; hopefully we can now resolve it. Boleyn (talk) 08:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment. A member of the military reserves may also be notable for what they accomplished in civilian line. In this case, I wasn't able to find anything non-military that he did, apart from graduating from [Upper Iowa University]]. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:GNG. Mztourist (talk) 10:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Joseph (Yoske) Levy

Joseph (Yoske) Levy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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If everything in this article is correct, he should meet WP:N. However, I couldn't verify it. It has been in CAT:NN for 14 years; hopefully we can now resolve it. Boleyn (talk) 07:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete I am not finding any references to support this. Claims llike "part of important collections around the world" are unsupported. One of the books listed as a reference in the article, "Depiction & Interpretation: The Influence of the Holocaust on the Visual Arts"," seems to only mention the name "Levy" three times, and every time it is instead art dealer Julien Levy they are writing about. Elspea756 (talk) 12:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Generic character (fiction)

Generic character (fiction) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Has essentially been unreferenced since its inception, and seems to be something of a duplicate of stock character. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:51, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Redirect to stock character as the much more comprehensive and referenced article this duplicates. Jclemens (talk) 08:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ferdinand Jay Smith III

Ferdinand Jay Smith III (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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delete. This person is not notable outside of his local geography. Kingturtle = (talk) 07:04, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Zionist entity

Zionist entity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The article is a polemic attack on the supposed ideological enemies of the state of Israel. Right from its very beginning it dispenses with any cloak of WP:NPOV and goes straight to attacking all Arabs, Muslims and left-wingers as being enemies of Israel. This sort of POV pushing has no place on Wikipedia as it offers no encyclopaedic value at all. This requires WP:TNT TarnishedPath^talk 07:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment: Note that deletion is not cleanup. Curbon7 (talk) 08:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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Deng (company)

Deng (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails to meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines for corporations, as explained in WP:NCORP and WP:ORGCRIT. Charlie (talk) 07:17, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Calibretto 13

Calibretto 13 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unsourced since 2013 and I can't find enough significant coverage that would show they need their own article. The only point in their favour (as far as I can tell, anyway) is that they released albums on Tooth & Nail Records, a significant indie label, but I'm not sure that's enough. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 06:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment that I forgot to include in my original message: if the consensus is that they shouldn't have their own article, it might be best to redirect to Harley Poe? Not sure though. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 06:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Zacharias Sexual Abuse Center

Zacharias Sexual Abuse Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Could not find indepth coverage either in google news or books. Mainly 1 line mentions, like getting support from the Chicago Bears. Fails WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 05:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment: I found this article by Chicago Tribune/Lake County News Sun which is behind a paywall, but appears to be reliable, independent, secondary, and with significant coverage of the subject. Left guide (talk) 09:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Bernd Hirschbichler

Bernd Hirschbichler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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BLP of an Austrian football referee, unimproved since tagging for notability three months ago. Between the unsourced sections there is a lot of routine coverage in match reports and primary sources with nothing to support notability. Mccapra (talk) 04:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Tirioro Willie

Tirioro Willie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unable to find any SIGCOV outside of databases. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 04:43, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• I would expect one of the newspapers in Kiribati would have published something when one of their most prominent athletes died at age 22. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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Corey Jackson

Corey Jackson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Player appeared in only a single NFL game. Has not received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources, so fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. ––FormalDude (talk) 04:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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• The article in its current state leaves much to be desired, but I have a hard time believing that a Defensive MVP of the NFL Europe league didn't receive enough SIGCOV to be considered notable. I have a feeling someone will dig up enough to demonstrate notability, though I myself don't have time to do so at the moment. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:23, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Tremendum Pictures

Tremendum Pictures (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The Hollywood Reporter article used as a ref doesn't seem to mention Tremendum. I can't find enough WP:SIGCOV to meet WP:NCORP. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing

Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The article doesn't have enough content to warrant its own page. Also, as it is an autobiography, anything revealed in it would be best suited for the MattheW Perry page itself. ChimaFan12 (talk) 03:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose. Article can definitely be expanded and work standalone rather than just as a section in the author's article. Might get around to doing that. This work is important and unique in the sense that it is uncommonly candid. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

All right, I expanded it a bit. Can someone make the references nicer? I don't know how to do that yet. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Refs nicely filled in. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Just keep. --Ouro (blah blah) 11:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Primax Broadcasting Network

Primax Broadcasting Network (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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• Delete. I can't find any reliable sources that could support the subject's notability. PROD was contested by an IP user without any reason given. Israel's Son 03:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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• Delete sources = WP:SELFPUB profile and a court document. Clearly fails WP:NCORP. TLA (talk) 03:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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Ghulam Mustafa Burdwani

Ghulam Mustafa Burdwani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

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Historical scholarship does not document our subject except once with the rest of the sources being verbatim quotations. Fails WP:N with no significant level of coverage. Article contains a lot of Original Research. Jaunpurzada (talk) 14:51, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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.Delete. Doesn't meet WP:GNG. RomanRaju (talk) 10:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom does not meet GNG.Tame Rhino (talk) 01:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

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Border Areas of Punjab, India

Border Areas of Punjab, India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No source referring to these districts/a specific border area as a particular grouping, appears to be WP:OR. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 15:14, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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Delete per nom, agreed it seems like WP:OR, sources used are about specific border areas or just listing/mapping parts of Punjab that border. Certain parts of the article may be worth merging into appropriate other articles, but the subject/scope of this article is OR. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 20:29, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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Yuanhang Y6

Yuanhang Y6 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NPRODUCT. Non-notable vehicle manufactured by non-notable car manufacturer. Of the two sources provided, the ArenaEV article states that it is based on the CarNewsChina article, which in turn states that it is based on the manufacturers website - so the sources are not independent. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 11:58, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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Delete, looks like W[P:PROMOTION

] to me Jothefiredragon (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)]

What the hell WP:PROMOTION Jothefiredragon (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

It may be for the article but how is it promotion for a car that will never be sold outside of China. I say no prejudice for a recreation. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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Ana Paola Andía

Ana Paola Andía (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I am unable to find sufficient coverage of the subject, a Bolivian women's footballer, to meet WP:GNG. All I found were passing mentions (1, 2, 3, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 02:30, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Nabin Luhagun (thespian)

Nabin Luhagun (thespian) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This article was presumably created at this location to circumvent the creation protection at Nabin Luhagun, which was part of a concerted sockpuppetry campaign to add an article about this person to the English Wikipedia. (Note the existence of an equally poor article at the Hindi Wikipedia here, created by translating the now-deleted and similarly-protected Nabin Luhagun (actor), which indicates that the subject is Nepali, as was the case with the deleted versions here, rather than Indian.) The given references only include mentions in cast lists and are of dubious reliability. A search suggests that there is not enough third-party coverage to warrant a biographical article and that the subject does not meet WP:GNG or WP:NACTOR. Kinu ^t/_c 02:29, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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•Keep.and move to Nabin Luhagun without (thespian) if possible, since there isn't any other articles which exists with that name. Thank you. AasifShrestha (talk) 05:32, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• As you are the creator of the article, it would be helpful for you to address the notability concerns raised in the nomination. --Kinu ^t/_c 05:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep: Every source has mentioned the subject as an actor, and this is enough for WP:GNG. RomanRaju (talk) 10:30, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Given that WP:GNG literally says "significant coverage is more than a trivial mention", this !vote makes absolutely no sense. --Kinu ^t/_c 14:28, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Kinu, thank you for this response, I was trying to say that the subject is mentioned as an actor which is enough for WP:GNG. RomanRaju (talk) 14:35, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Any reasonable closing admin will realize that the given sources are absolutely worthless toward establishing notability, so I will refrain from further responses per WP:BLUDGEON. --Kinu ^t/_c 14:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete: It is unclear the extent to which the subject may have a role in Waltair Veerayya: even verification requires more than inclusion in a list of names. But, regardless, this is insufficient for WP:NACTOR, and the present instance's creation under this variant title indicates evasion of the protection applied with the deletion of prior instance titles. AllyD (talk) 12:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom does not meet NACTOR.Tame Rhino (talk) 00:39, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  You just have 11 edits, how you know about WP:NACTOR. AasifShrestha (talk) 06:03, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

.Redirect. The title is connected to Waltair Veerayya; it is better to redirect the page to Waltair Veerayya, no deletion.2400:9700:113:1547:45B5:4F14:BC2E:F828 (talk) 10:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment: Regarding the IP's suggestion of redirecting to the Waltair Veerayya article, I would prefer if there was some solid source for associating the subject with the film. The subject is not mentioned at the film's IMDb article's full cast and crew, for example. AllyD (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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Cambodia–Kosovo relations

Cambodia–Kosovo relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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There is not much to these relations except lack of recognition by Cambodia which is already covered in International_recognition_of_Kosovo#Countries_which_have_not_recognised_Kosovo_as_an_independent_state. LibStar (talk) 03:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Keep The article helps as a split to address WP:SIZE issues at said article. A move can be considered if needed, such as Cambodia's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. --NoonIcarus (talk) 02:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

nah bro this is a very important article we MUST keep it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cringlebob (talk • contribs) 14:03, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete – Per nom. Relationship without any established notability. Svartner (talk) 20:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete as there is nothing substantial or notable here. ― novov (t c) 09:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

AzzyLand

AzzyLand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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It doesn't seem like this Youtuber meets WP:GNG or WP:ENT. The best I can find are non-RSees, the BI article listing creators with high view counts, and recent articles about SSSniperwolf's ongoing disputes with different content creators including Azzyland. BuySomeApples (talk) 00:02, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Obviously, this article should be kept. AzzyLand is one of the most viewed YouTubers in the world. I cannot understand how somebody can get over 1000000000 views in a year and not be notable enough for Wikipedia. I was very surprised when I found out that she was not on Wikipedia already. Please keep this article. Madison Elizabeth Michelle (talk) 22:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
  • That's because you don't understand notability, which is nothing whatsoever to do with views on YouTube. Notability is not fame nor importance. You also need to learn about reliable sources. An autobiography on YouTube, another autobiography elsewhere, and a wiki are not the way to source biographical articles, or indeed any articles. Uncle G (talk) 03:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Sources:

1. A 7-minute video interview published by Forbes hosted by Moira Forbes
2. A 3-minute video interview with Cosmopolitan Middle East
3. The Business Insider piece already cited in the Wikipedia article, which covers the subject briefly but more than a passing mention, so probably counts as "half of a source"
4. An article by GirlTalkHQ, a magazine I haven't heard of but might be reliable

Left guide (talk) 09:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

• Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Found name mentions, interviews, promo, nothing meeting SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BLPs requires strong sourcing. Sources in the article are:

Comments	Source
Official website, fails WP:IS	1. https://www.azzyland.com
Social media channel	2. ^ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzeB_0FNcPIyUSjL_TL5lEw
Promo item in list of social media channel, database style info.	3. ^ https://www.businessinsider.com/youtube-most-viewed-creators-pewdiepie-david-dobrik-mrbeast-azzyland-lazarbeam-2019-12

BLPs require strong soucing. Ping me if WP:IS WP:RS with NPOV SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth is found.  // Timothy :: talk  19:04, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Weak Keep Per left guide's sourcing. 2 of those are RS and have significant coverage. Meets the "ugh, fine, I guess" threshold. There's also some additional coverage of recent plagiarism accusations involving SSSniperwolf. This is a MREL source about it. [3][4]. Don't use those for notability, but they might help be usable to de-orphan the article. Acebulf ^{(talk | contribs)} 01:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete – Fails notability guidelines; I couldn't find more GNG passable sources other than this and this, other than several stories of the mentioned dispute, lists, and profiles. Toadette ^{(Merry Christmas, and a happy new year)} 22:36, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Although the article currently does not meet notability, there are sources cited above that would allow this topic to achieve notability. Using the guideline that an article should not be deleted if the sources exist to improve it, this article should be retained. Rublamb (talk) 00:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep for the reasons I stated above. Also, the article could be improved with reliable sources. Madison Elizabeth Michelle (talk) 21:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete: Just not enough coverage to meet notability. Dexerto has a few articles about the feud with SSniperwold [5] and [6], but it's a marginally reliable source per our guidelines. A forbes interview [7] is fine but there is little to no information outside the interview, so it's still a primary source. I was surprised to learn she's from Toronto and actually has set up a foundation for the SickKids Hospital here, one of the best pediatric hospitals in Canada, but there is no coverage about it! Using her real name, the best I could find was [8] where she guest stars on a CBC web series/tv show. I'm frankly surprised she hasn't been interviewed by more media here. Oaktree b (talk) 03:06, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete: Agree with Oaktree b, and as the user has pointed out, there's little reliable secondary sources that cover the subject extensively. The article can always be restored if the subject becomes notable. Spinixster (chat!) 02:17, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Embassy of Indonesia, Kyiv

Embassy of Indonesia, Kyiv (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This article doesn't say much except confirms it exists and lacking indepth coverage. The Ukrainian and Indonesian language versions of these article have more sources but they merely confirm former ambassadors. Fails WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment: These should also be deleted: Embassy of Indonesia, Brasília, Embassy of Indonesia, Caracas, Embassy of Indonesia, Bandar Seri Begawan, Embassy of Indonesia, Tokyo, Embassy of Indonesia, Ankara, Embassy of Indonesia, Brussels, Embassy of Indonesia, Prague, Embassy of Indonesia, Athens, Embassy of Indonesia, The Hague, Embassy of Indonesia, Wellington. CakalangSantan (talk) 18:16, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete. Just how many of these articles are there? Cortador (talk) 11:19, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Battle of Jazja

Battle of Jazja (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails GNG and NEVENT. Minorincident, No sources found showing this has WP:SIGCOV from WP:RS addressing the subject directly and indepth.  // Timothy :: talk  01:04, 10 January 2024 (UTC)  // Timothy :: talk  01:04, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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  Hey I don't understand why this article is being deleted, could you explain what's wrong with it ? Yubudirsi (talk) 05:41, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete I see no significant notability to warrant its own article. Same goes for 2nd Battle of Yedaya Socialwave597 (talk) 06:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  I added another secondary source, I think that makes 3 Yubudirsi (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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Added another secondary source Yubudirsi (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete though I’ve no objection to draftification. The creator appears to have gone through the chronicles and written an article about every armed conflict that ever took place between Ethiopia and Adal using the formula “battle of [place mentioned] whether the source describes that as “[battle of place mentioned]” or not. I think there is sufficient sourcing for several more broad-based articles talking about each war, or each campaign, or each period, but not one for each “battle”. This is an area of history which is currently under covered, but that isn’t a license to embroider and expand on what sources say. Draftification would allow the creator to figure out some way of repurposing the material they’ve researched and combining multiple current articles in the series they’ve created in the NPP queue, but unless they ask to do that, I agree we should delete. Mccapra (talk) 03:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Failatu Abdul-Razak

Failatu Abdul-Razak (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Appears to be notable for only one thing (WP:BLP1E), which is attempting to break the world record, but she didn't manage to do that. The rest of the article is also promotional in tone. ... discospinster _talk 00:35, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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You're correct; the tone of the article is promotional. A complete overhaul is necessary. Instead of deleting it, I suggest we undertake a comprehensive revision to address the promotional aspects and improve its overall quality. Ihikky (talk) 12:20, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep – Looks like he just recently broke records. Article is certainly promotional + refspam, so cleanup is needed. But I think recent events since the nomination help tip it over the edge. TLA (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

  The article says that she "appears to have broken the record", and they will send the evidence to Guinness World Records. Also, Guinness World Records is no longer an example of notability on its own, since it now allows anyone to create a world record for themselves for promotional purposes. ... discospinster _talk 17:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep- bkeep article and allow for improvement in tone.CoachAni (talk) 23:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC) — CoachAni (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

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Chris Sainty

Chris Sainty (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 00:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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• Delete gets routine coverage as a government representative but nothing indepth to meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 01:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

• KEEP. I have added a para, which I hope establishes some level of notability. Roundtheworld (talk) 11:59, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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1892 Western Maryland Green Terror football team

1892 Western Maryland Green Terror football team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unable to find the WP:SIGCOV needed for this team, which only played one game against a nearby high school, to meet the WP:NSEASONS. Let'srun (talk) 00:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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Delete for the same reasons in the deletion discussion for the 1893 team.[9]. Should have been bundled. Wizmut (talk) 02:23, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ali-Mohammad Mirza

Ali-Mohammad Mirza (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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• Delete Cannot find any sources demonstrating this individual existed. Tooncool64 (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Royalty and nobility and Iran. Shellwood (talk) 01:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete me neither. A search in Farsi brought up a single page on an official Iranian state website that is blocked in the UK, linking to a “Printed copy of the payment of the pension of Ihtisham al-Malamek” but who that person was I can’t say. That’s all I can find so nothing in our article is verifiable. Even if it was he still wouldn't be notable unless there was quite a bit more to be said about him. Mccapra (talk) 04:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Wolastoq

Wolastoq (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This article seems to be a WP:POVFORK about the river known as the Saint John River (Bay of Fundy). While some have proposed the river be renamed Wolastoq, governments in Canada and the US have not done so. It seems clear that the widely accepted name is "Saint John River". This article has been discussed at WP:CANADA and there seems to be a consensus, at least there, that this page should be deleted or merged into Saint John River (Bay of Fundy). Some editors there said that once this page is a redirect it should be WP:SALTed to prevent re-creation. Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 01:01, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Canada, and Maine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I invite attention to this discussion to understand the origin of this article. The status of this river as an international boundary artificially splits the region's previous history as a single first nation with important contributions to preservation of the Acadian way of life. I am of the opinion this material might be integrated into the Saint John River (Bay of Fundy) article from which it was removed by Cornellier. Failure to keep this information together needlessly fragments background circumstances important to understanding of that history. This situation may justify application of WP:IAR to the WP:WikiProject Rivers guidelines. Thewellman (talk) 03:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really understand this point of view. A river being an international boundary does not preclude coverage of subjects that cross that international boundary. JM (talk) 08:12, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge into Saint John River (Bay of Fundy). Salting seems necessary, given the political nature of the differing names. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 05:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Delete or merge, and salt as a WP:POVFORK rewrite of the Saint John River (Bay of Fundy) article covering the exact same subject but from a certain POV. Even the first sentence of the article makes it an obvious POVFORK, covering the same exact subject as Saint John River (Bay of Fundy) in a First Nations POV rather than the conventional geography: Wolastoq (Maliseet-Passamaquoddy: “The River of the Good Wave”), changed in 1604 by Samuel de Champlain to Fleuve Saint-Jean (English: Saint John River), is a river flowing within the Dawnland region for approximately 418 miles (673 km). NPOV is a pillar, and having 2 articles about the same subject with one from NPOV and one from a First Nations POV violates that pillar. JM (talk) 08:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Merge (or Delete) then salt. Definate POV Fork. Masterhatch (talk) 09:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Goettems (surname)

Goettems (surname) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article looks fine on the surface, falls apart on further examination. First of all, the name fails WP:NNAME. More importantly, almost nothing comes up when I google anything with "Goettems" or "Goettems family" in it. The sources seem to be lists and mentions, nothing substantial or establishing notability. Several assertions throughout the article make me think that it could have been created by a family member (no solid evidence for this, of course). Just seems like a totally unremarkable family tree. I could probably write something similar about my own family and make it as verbose. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 00:29, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ethnic groups, History, Germany, and Brazil. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  • Keep. Improve as necessary, don’t delete. The purpose of an encyclopedia should be to provide information, not to withhold information. I think the major problem with all of these similar deletion nominations is with the policy itself.

  Bookworm857158367 (talk) 07:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Curtis Hamilton (American football)

Curtis Hamilton (American football) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Restored PROD from 2020. I agree with the PROD's rationale: Fails WP:ANYBIO, WP:NGRIDIRON, WP:NCOLLATH, and WP:NACTOR. Draftifying is an acceptable WP:ATD. - UtherSRG (talk) 00:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Sportspeople, United States of America, and Kentucky. UtherSRG (talk) 00:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom/above. BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Sources found are all routine mill news, name mentions, listings, nothing that meets WP:IS WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth.  // Timothy :: talk  02:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
  • @TimothyBlue: Many of the below stories cover Hamilton directly and in-depth. BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Note that Hamilton is covered extensively in The Park City Daily News, see for example here (p2), here, here, here, here, here, here, and here, plus a story from The Courier-Journal here. BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:23, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

  I think these are a combination of routine mill news and interviews. All seem to depend on the subject and/or David Elson as a source, so I think there is an issue with WP:IS.  // Timothy :: talk  03:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

List of military engagements of World War II

List of military engagements of World War II (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of military engagements of World War II AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article is same as List of World War II battles, there is no reason to have 2 articles based around the same thing. Should be merged with List of World War II battles — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antny08 (talk • contribs) 12:30, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Files

File:The main building of the Baltic Exchange after its completion in 1903.jpg

File:The main building of the Baltic Exchange after its completion in 1903.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Cmglee (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

I couldn't find any information about the author of this 1903 photograph. Could {{PD-old-assumed}} apply here? Ixfd64 (talk) 19:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Google and Bing image searches didn't return any author info. Another site listing it is http://jbarchive.co.uk/products/lo-5673-the-baltic-mercantile-shipping-exchange-st-mary-axe-london-c1905 . ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths states for the UK, "70 years if the author is unknown //

70 years after release; if not released, 70 years after making (sound recordings).""). cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 00:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:04, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

File:DoddEntrance.jpg

File:DoddEntrance.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Mgreason (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

Dubious claim of own work as the image could be found at the FSU website prior to the upload to Wikipedia. Ixfd64 (talk) 02:15, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

File:Holbein-tube.png

File:Holbein-tube.png (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by JimKillock (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log). 

This image was originally deleted under F7c as replaceable non-free content. After discussion on my talk page, I have restored the image and placed it here at FFD for further discussion as the deletion is not clearcut. There is some relevant prior discussions at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#Re File:Holbein-tube.png image size reduction request, and Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#Image deletion request on The Ambassadors (Holbein). There is a free image of the skull viewed through the tube (File:Demonstration of Holbein's skull image viewed through a tube.jpg). Any need to identify other objects and alignments in the painting can refer to the painting itself (File:Hans Holbein the Younger - The Ambassadors - Google Art Project.jpg) and use words to convey this. As such, I still feel that WP:NFCC#1 is not met for use in The Ambassadors (Holbein). There is also a non-free usage at Edgar Samuel. All of the relevant information and illustration are available the article about the painting so the use here would not meet WP:NFCC#3 in addiiton to the points above. Whpq (talk) 02:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for relisting.

Re: Any need to identify other objects and alignments in the painting can refer to the painting itself and use words to convey this. I think the point is, that while in theory someone could follow words to understand the composition, or try to reassemble te composition in their head, that is an awful lot of effort for someone. Most people won't manage it, whereas most people looking at a picture, will find it easy to follow that, for instance, the head looks a certain size, and is placed at a certain point, and aligns with certain objects. That makes assessing whether viewing "with a tube" is a realistic or convincing argument rather hard for the average reader. It is after all an artwork and meant to be interpreted and understood visually.

To summarise the prior points, it is proving hard to replicate this image, but it is my intention to provide an equivalent if possible. For instance we don't know yet how much restoration has altered the skull dimensions, shdowing on either side, aspects of the face, jaw and nose. From the pre-restoration image, it is likely prints will be too small (7.5in square) to take a decent photograph from, as the optic would be tiny if in proportion to the picture. From a modern reproduction, Perspex tubes are easy to find but are less good optically than in the 1960s, those I have found cause streaking and blur; I am trying to track down a glass optic but they are only available from industry suppliers.

As I understand the policy, the image meets fair use criteria, but should be kept only if it is "impossible" to recreate. At this point, I don't know whether it is possible, or practical, or impossible, or impractical. Thus I would hope we err on the side of Wikipedia's mission, the dissemination of knowledge, while we ascertain whether it can be reproduced. Jim Killock (talk) 04:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Categories

Category:Development of individual fictional characters

• Propose deleting Category:Development of individual fictional characters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Not sure how many articles used to be here, but a single article does not a category make. This should probably be removed as it is no longer relevant. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Tai people

• Propose merging Category:8th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:8th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:9th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:9th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:10th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:10th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:11th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:11th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:12th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:12th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:13th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:13th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:14th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:14th-century Asian people
• Propose merging Category:15th-century Tai people to Category:Tai peoples and Category:15th-century Asian people

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection. The Tai people are a language group. Mason (talk) 04:25, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support in principle, per nom, but the first target should be any Foo people subcategory of Category:Tai peoples rather than Category:Tai peoples itself. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Texas secession movements

• Propose merging Category:Texas secession movements to Category:Texas secessionism

Nominator's rationale: These categories are largely overlapping. User:Liz [10] brought the category to my attention. Mason (talk) 04:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge or reverse merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 04:53, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
• Reverse merge per article Texas secession movements. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Architecture records by country

• Propose splitting Category:Architecture records by country to Category:Architecture by country and Category:Records by country

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. this category has only one page in it, which is unhelpful for navigation Mason (talk) 03:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom, but only to Category:Records by country because the subcategory is already in Category:Lists of buildings and structures by country. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Architecture in Ghana by century

• Propose merging Category:Architecture in Ghana by century to Category:Architecture in Ghana
• Propose merging Category:Architecture in Brazil by century to Category:Architecture in Brazil
• Propose merging Category:Architecture in Croatia by century to Category:Architecture in Croatia

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in each of these categories, which is unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 03:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Moreover, diffusion of architecture by century does not make a lot of sense because it will largely duplicate the buildings and structures tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:16th-century debut plays

• Propose splitting Category:16th-century debut plays to Category:16th-century plays and Category:Debut plays

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. This category is unhelpful for navigation with only one play in it. Mason (talk) 02:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom, but only to Category:Debut plays because the article is already in Category:1510s plays. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Novels by country and century of setting

• Propose merging Category:Novels by country and century of setting to Category:Novels by century of setting

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here, which isn't helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 02:50, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Bahraini writers by genre

• Propose merging Category:Bahraini writers by genre to Category:Bahraini writers

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one genre in here, and I'm not sure if poetry counts as a genre. Mason (talk) 02:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:19th-century Bahraini people

• Propose deleting Category:19th-century Bahraini people (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Propose deleting Category:19th-century Bahraini writers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Propose deleting Category:19th-century Bahraini poets (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. The only category member in this entire tree isn't notable until the 20th century. Mason (talk) 02:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete all per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:53, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:18th-century Bangladeshi people

• Propose deleting Category:18th-century Bangladeshi people (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This category is effectively empty. Bangladesh doesn't exist until 1971. Mason (talk) 02:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, the articles are already in Category:18th-century Indian royalty. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Meitei people by occupation

• Propose deleting Category:Meitei people by occupation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful for navigation. The only "occupation" in here isn't actually about people from that ethnic group, but is for actors in "Meitei cinema". Mason (talk) 02:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. The deepest subcategory is already in Category:Women in Meitei culture. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Avon Grove Graduates

• Propose deleting Category:Avon Grove Graduates (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: 2-article category. If kept, should be renamed Avon Grove alumni Gjs238 (talk) 02:30, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:18th-century Meitei people

• Propose merging Category:18th-century Meitei people to Category:Meitei people

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge (for now?). This category isn't helpful for navigation as there are only two people in here, and I don't think we really need to diffuse ethnicity by century for this category. Mason (talk) 02:29, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge for now, without objection to recreate the category when more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of Polish presidential pardons

• Propose deleting Category:Recipients of Polish presidential pardons (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This is a weird category. Just one entry, and incorrect - in the time of People's Republic of Poland, there were no presidential pardons, the pardons were awarded by a different body (State Council of the Polish People's Republic), and so the corresponding category on Poland for that period (the one that would be correct for the single bio currently listed in the nominated category) is Category:Recipients of pardons from the State Council of the Polish People's Republic - pl:Kategoria:Ułaskawieni przez Radę Państwa (Polska Ludowa)). Now, presidential pardons existed in Poland before and after that period, but it is confusing to group them like this (since it would mean the period of 1918-1952 and 1989-present, more or less). Pl wiki instead has separate subcategories for different periods, something we should replicate one day (see Kategoria:Ułaskawieni w Polsce). In the meantime, this needs to go. PS. Also, there's no parent Category:Recipients of presidential pardons to worry about and I am not sure if this would ever be needed (but maybe one day we will categorize pardons by pardoning body? If so, for Poland this likely should be just an empty container for the more detailed periods anyway). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Nobility from Japan

• Propose merging Category:Nobility from Japan to Category:Japanese nobility

Nominator's rationale: Not sure what the difference between these two categories is? HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Support merge. Looks like a recently created duplicate by a relatively new user. Mason (talk) 02:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Support merge. per above. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Just delete, the articles are already in Category:Imperial House of Japan. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Countesses of Barcelona

• Propose splitting Category:Countesses of Barcelona to Category:Spanish countesses and Category:People from the County of Barcelona

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. This category "lists the Countess consorts of the County of Barcelona, for the regnant Countess of Barcelona see: Category:Counts of Barcelona." Mason (talk) 01:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• At least purge. Most articles are about queens of Aragon. Just keep the articles from the earlier period when Barcelona was fully independent. If merged, only to Category:People from the County of Barcelona, the other target would be anachronistic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Countesses of Ribagorza

• Propose merging Category:Countesses of Ribagorza to Category:Spanish countesses

Nominator's rationale: Merge. Does not seem to be a defining feature for the only page member. Also worth noting that there is no equivalent category for "Count of Ribagorza" Mason (talk) 01:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, the article is about a queen consort, this countess title is not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:20th-century American people by occupation and state

• Propose splitting Category:20th-century American people by occupation and state to Category:20th-century American people by state and Category:American people by occupation and state or territory

Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge for now. There's not enough occupations in here to justify a subcategory. It's not helpful for navigation to have only one category in here. Mason (talk) 01:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Transgender prostitutes

• Propose merging Category:Transgender prostitutes to Category:Transgender sex workers

Nominator's rationale: Possibly due as a broader topic, as well as being the preferred terminology in newer sources. GnocchiFan (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Not all sex workers are prostitutes. Apokrif (talk) 20:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, but all prostitutes are sex workers, which is why I am proposing the merge that way around. I mention that this is the preferred terminology as in many newer sources, trans prostitutes are routinely described as sex workers instead of prostitutes, which may lead to issues in categorisation and WP:OR. But that's just an additional consideration - the main thing here is that is this a big enough topic to split into two separate but interrelated categories at this point? (Personally, I am on the fence on this, but proposing the merge to seek further editor input). - GnocchiFan (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• If prostitutes are called sex workers nowadays then Wikipedia's sex workers categories are too broad. This requires a broader discussion, it is not specifically a transgender topic. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

  See the above - I only mentioned that due to possible overlap, the terms are not synonymous. My main concern is that the trans-specific category may not be large enough to have this level of subcategorisation, which may not apply to the other sex worker categories. GnocchiFan (talk) 21:02, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

  • There are 5 articles and 2 redirects in the category, that is usually considered (just) sufficient. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:06, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 00:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Proposed National parks in Wales

• Propose merging Category:Proposed National parks in Wales to Category:National parks in Wales

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge to Category:National parks in Wales, I created it mistakenly long ago and only actually has one real entry (the N.E.W. NP), the proposed national park is to replace CRDV (which isn't an NP). And only recently created the proposed article so while there are now two entries there really should be one, and therefore the category isn't really needed. DankJae 23:59, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

• Selectively merge per nom, only one article needs to be recategorized. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete for clarity then given it's not (yet) a national park, nor granted the designation. Already sufficiently interlinked in the main article. Respublik (talk) 22:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:58, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 00:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• This is very close to consensus, we are merely debating whether North East Wales National Park belongs in the Natural parks target. I am still saying yes, because national park is the topic of the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Western Samoa

• Propose renaming Category:1962 establishments in Western Samoa to Category:1962 establishments in Samoa
• Propose renaming Category:1962 in Western Samoa to Category:1962 in Samoa
• Propose renaming Category:1960s establishments in Western Samoa to Category:1960s establishments in Samoa
• Propose merging Category:1960s in Western Samoa to Category:1960s in Samoa
• Propose deleting Category:20th-century establishments in Western Samoa
• Propose deleting Category:20th century in Western Samoa
• Propose deleting Category:Years of the 20th century in Western Samoa
• Propose merging Category:Establishments in Western Samoa by year to Category:Establishments in Samoa by year
• Propose deleting Category:Establishments in Western Samoa by decade
• Propose deleting Category:Establishments in Western Samoa by century

Nominator's rationale: Even though the name Western Samoa was used until 1997, all other categories after 1961 use "Samoa", see 20th-century establishments in Samoa and 20th century in Samoa. – Fayenatic London 13:16, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Comment That makes me wonder if the other categories have it wrong. Would love to hear from someone more familiar in the topic area whether "Samoa" was in common usage during this period for the country, excluding American Samoa. (I'm sure it was in use to describe the archipelago). - RevelationDirect (talk) 15:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Not an expert by any means, but a look on the National Library of New Zealand's Papers Past website (NZ and Samoa are quite connected, even after independence in 1962) seems to suggest that "Samoa" was used to refer to Western Samoa reasonably often. ― novov (t c) 03:42, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

• Rename for Now per WP:C2C since these categories should match the the rest of the adjacent branches of the category tree. No objection to a later broader nomination though. - RevelationDirect (talk) 22:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 00:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Category:Travelers in Asia Minor

• Propose merging Category:Travelers in Asia Minor to Category:Travelers

Nominator's rationale: Traveling in "Asia Minor" is not defining Mason (talk) 04:21, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support in principle, but I think that Category:Explorers of West Asia is a better merge target. Multiple of these people travelled in various Middle Eastern countries. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

  I think this is a fair alternative, only I am not sure we can say these territories were previously undescribed (as I think they should be for the travel to count as exploration) - they are known via classical geographers such as Strabo, for example. If Anatolia/Asia Minor can be retained instead of West Asia that would be preferable because more specific. I am aware that no equivalent categories are available for most other regions and for much larger geographical units. The benefit of keeping the list as it is would be that it is already specific to Anatolia/Asia Minor which is quite a substantial and well-defined region. I guess it depends on what detail of coverage Wikipedia is aiming for. VampaVampa (talk) 11:18, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose tentatively. Since I added the category I could perhaps clarify it and attempt to defend its viability (not necessarily its name). The category was intended to bring together biographies of archaeologists, historians and classicists who left written accounts of their visits (often amounting to semi-professional archaeological surveys) to sites of historical interest in Anatolia, aka Asia Minor. In other words, the category corresponds to people active in the field of producing learned travel literature for the historical sites of Asia Minor. This will not be a standard defining activity for these people, but arguably just because it is quite narrowly specialised and so may not feel relevant to most readers. A good example of a scholar who made "travel in Asia Minor" their de facto academic speciality is Louis Robert. However, Wikipedia does have a category for Holy Land travellers, which looks similar in its criteria of inclusion. If Asia Minor does not merit the treatment given to the Holy Land, then perhaps the category could be revised to make it more useful to readers. Most of the travel covered by the category occurred during the Ottoman period, when this form of activity enjoyed popularity (especially in Britain, France and Germany), so "Travelers to the Ottoman Empire" would be a reasonable modification (requiring some articles to be dropped, of course). This could also work because many of the travelers in question went to Greece, Balkans or other Mediterranean parts of West Asia as well as Anatolia. Many of the "travelers in Asia Minor" were also antiquarians and Orientalists, which might give another way of renaming the category. This peculiar usage of "traveler" has its tradition in scholarly literature - this is what the title of C. H. E. Haspels's memoirs refers to: I am the last of the travelers. VampaVampa (talk) 01:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Please comment on my alt merge proposal separately. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

• Lean Toward Alt Merge to Category:Explorers of West Asia to better convey what I think the intent is here. @VampaVampa: I'd welcome your perspective though. - RevelationDirect (talk) 15:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seawolf35 ^T--C 00:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Support alt merge. I think that the alter merge target is an improvement and fits with the content Mason (talk) 01:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Redirects

Portal:Romani people

• Portal:Romani people → Portal:India  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete. They live mostly in Europe / Turkey, having moved out of India around 1000 CE. Sending people who want to see a Romani people portal to a portal about India is not helpful or very logical. Fram (talk) 08:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Jackson County Sheriff's Office (Oregon)

• Jackson County Sheriff's Office (Oregon) → Jackson County, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ashland Police Department (Oregon)

• Ashland Police Department (Oregon) → Ashland, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Cottage Grove Police Department (Oregon)

• Cottage Grove Police Department (Oregon) → Cottage Grove, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Gresham Police Department (Oregon)

• Gresham Police Department (Oregon) → Gresham, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic (except for a notable resident who was killed by the police), it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Lincoln City Police Department (Oregon)

• Lincoln City Police Department (Oregon) → Lincoln City, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Salem Police Department (Oregon)

• Salem Police Department (Oregon) → Salem, Oregon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic (except in a single caption about a building), it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Portland Community College Department of Public Safety

• Portland Community College Department of Public Safety → Portland Community College  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. tedder (talk) 05:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Central Oregon Community College Department of Public Safety

• Central Oregon Community College Department of Public Safety → Central Oregon Community College  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Redirect goes to page that doesn't mention the topic, it would be better to have a redlink than a misleading redirect. (strangely, there is a "see also" to this at the target article, which is even more confusing) tedder (talk) 05:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

The Last Samurai(1974 Film)

• The Last Samurai(1974 Film) → The Last Samurai (1974 film)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per WP:RDAB due to the lack of space between the title and the disambiguator. The title with the correct spacing, The Last Samurai (1974 Film), does not exist. However, the proper variation of the title, The Last Samurai (1974 film), is the target of the nominated redirect. Steel1943 (talk) 05:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Cyclone Vida(1975)

• Cyclone Vida(1975) → 1974–75 Australian region cyclone season#Tropical Cyclone Vida  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per WP:RDAB due to the lack of space between the title and the disambiguator. The title with the correct spacing, Cyclone Vida (1975), is a redirect that targets the same target as the nominated redirect. Steel1943 (talk) 05:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Japanese Tulagi Disembarc(1942)

• Japanese Tulagi Disembarc(1942) → Invasion of Tulagi (May 1942)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per WP:RDAB due to the lack of space between the title and the disambiguator. The title with the correct spacing, Japanese Tulagi Disembarc (1942), is a redirect that targets the same target as the nominated redirect. Steel1943 (talk) 05:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Agneepath(2012 film)

• Agneepath(2012 film) → Agneepath (2012 film)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per WP:RDAB due to the lack of space between the title and the disambiguator. The title with the correct spacing, Agneepath (2012 film), is the target of the nominated redirect. Steel1943 (talk) 05:34, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

John Seed

• John Seed → Far Cry 5  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The target mentions a Joseph Seed, and then later on that Joseph has a brother named John, but doesn't use this name or discuss a character by this name in sufficient depth for this redirect to be useful. Various other articles mention other non-notable people with this name, so the video game character is unlikely to be the primary topic. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 19:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:56, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
• The article was about the Australian environmentalist, and I just tagged it with {{R with history}}. Restore and AfD. Jay 💬 07:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Spondylous

• Spondylous → Vertebral column  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned in the target article, making the connection between the redirect and the target article unclear. However, there are 3 instances of words that begin with the prefix "spondy-" in the article, but they do not make it very clear why this specific redirect would target the current target. Spondylus exists, but it seems so unrelated to the current target that retargeting there as a misspelling seems incorrect/unhelpful. Steel1943 (talk) 19:42, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

• Soft redirect. wikt:spondylous defines it as Relating to spondyles; vertebral; wikt:spondyle reads (archaic, anatomy) A joint of the backbone; a vertebra.. Vertebral currently exists as a redirect to the same target, but is being discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 29#Vertebral. I think soft redirecting to Wiktionary is my first choice, but my close second preference is to mark it as a {{R avoided double redirect}} of vertebral and point it wherever the consensus target of that redirect is (my preference for that is Vertebra). Thryduulf (talk) 21:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

  Note that the Vertebral RfD closed as retarget to Vertebra a day back. Jay 💬 20:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Templates and Modules

Template:Anthony Lewis bibliography

• Template:Anthony Lewis bibliography (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

2 entries WP:NENAN --woodensuperman 12:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:Deborah Anderson

• Template:Deborah Anderson (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Other than family members, only two articles. WP:NENAN. --woodensuperman 10:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:2020s WSOP bracelet winners

• Template:2020s WSOP bracelet winners (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Too large and with too much unlinked text to provide useful navigation. --woodensuperman 11:40, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Remove unlinked-names: the template is for navigation and it solves the problem. 109.37.142.196 (talk) 13:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really believe this is a useful or suitable topic for navigation though. Who would really want to navigate between any of the people with articles on this navbox in this manner. --woodensuperman 16:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete This could just go on a list within an article. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Miscellany

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: speedy delete per CSD G6 as a completely unviable request for adminship; I strongly suspect it was GPT-generated. Graham87 (talk) 02:17, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Админ.МК

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Админ.МК (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) – (View MfD)​

Incoherent and absurd requests, obvious hoaxes. Such as : "I have a proven track record of contributing to various articles across different topics. My contributions include creating new articles, improving existing ones, and adding reliable sources to support the information presented. " -Lemonaka‎ 01:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.