Talk:Stephen Harper

Environmental Record

The Environmental Record section previously stated "Since 2006, the Canadian Conservative Party government led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper has adopted few and gutted many environmental laws and policies dealing with rising greenhouse emissions, pollution problems and climate change". The only source for this statement was from the budget analysis of the Green Party of Canada-- a rival political party, and can therefore not be considered impartial. In order to preserve Wikipedia's Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy, the section had been amended to specify the source of the criticism of the CPC's environmental record. The greenhouse gas emissions levels graphed by Environment Canada during the tenure of the CPC has also been added to provide objective data on the environmental record of the CPC. The term "Conservatives" has been replaced by "the Conservative Party of Canada" to specify that the information is directed towards Canada's federal conservative political party as opposed to conservative Canadians in general. The 'silencing scientists' assertion made by the NY Times requires more substantial sources that specifically detail what legislation has been passed to 'silence scientists'. Moreover, if environmental regulations have been cut by the CPC, provide specific sourced examples. The sources themselves must not simply be editorial articles that also fail to include any specific details. Please post any feedback or concerns to the talk section. Review the guidelines of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons especially in regards to tone prior to posting.

The 'silencing scientist' section has been removed. This was a criticism made by the NY Times in an editorial article. It mentioned that Mr. Harper has been accused of silencing scientists. However, the NY Times editorial article did not specify who was accusing Prime Minister Harper of silencing scientists, nor did it give any specific examples of any scientists who were allegedly silenced.

The GPC's criticism of Prime Minister Harper's environmental record has been removed. The only source was a dead-link. Criticism made by opposition parties could be considered relevant to the WP article, but only if the criticisms are sourced and specific. Even then, criticisms made by opposition parties might be better suited for the Environmental policy of Canada page.

The National Post article cites the elimination of a seven-member team, saving the government $600,000 per year. Could this specific spending cut have been offset by a spending increase in other areas of Environment Canada? There is no mention of the overall spending towards Environmental Canada from 2006 to present. This section should be replaced by the annual budget change (increase of decrease) of Environment Canada from 2006 to present. Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 09:09, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I reverted a few of your changes because it was your analysis of government numbers (which is WP:OR) and went against the cited source. I did however, add more sources to show the muzzling scientist issue, and I removed the Green Party criticism section, which definitely needed more neutral sourcing if it was to stay. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 05:07, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Why does it say Quebec's cap and trade system has helped to lower emissions? The program only started this year and any emissions data has a two-three year lag? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.171.38.192 (talk) 03:05, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

It's from the source cited: "The report does credit the Harper government’s new regulations (a coordinated Canada-U.S. policy) to reduce emissions from cars and light trucks and its new performance standards for coal-fired generation. But the forecast also builds in provincial measures, such as B.C.’s carbon tax, Quebec’s cap-and-trade program for carbon emissions, and, especially, Ontario’s phase-out of coal-generated electricity. As well, the report notes that energy efficiency has steadily improved since 1990—a key trend in so-called “intensity,” which means any government could look forward to a small annual decline in the amount of emissions for every dollar’s worth of Canadian economic activity." ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:33, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Patar knight

While the Lower Churchill Project will not be finished until 2017, this still falls under the scope of the Environmental Policy of the CPC. Hydroelectricity is a cornerstone of the CPC's environmental policy. The federal loan guarantee was a campaign issue during the 2011 general election. When completed, the the Lower Churchill's two installations at Gull Island and Muskrat Falls will have a combined capacity of over 3,074 MW and have the ability to provide 16.7 TWh of electricity per year. This is roughly 50% more than the Hoover Dam, and will be the fourth largest hydroelectricity facility in North America! Its inclusion in the article, like 'Canada's Clean Air and Climate Change Act' is essential.

The silencing scientist accusation, while sourced, does not specify which scientists are allegedly being silenced nor in which way. Until this can be verified by concrete examples, it must be removed. Similarly, the budget cut accusation to Environment Canada does not have any specifics. For example, did the budget increase dramatically, and then dip slightly under the CPC for a net gain? Until solid numbers are put forth, this must be removed.

Federal funds for public transit expansion also falls under the scope of Environmental policy. In September 2013, former finance minister Jim Flaherty announced a federal contribution of $660 million towards the public transit expansion project.

For ease of reading, the Environmental Policy section will be split into two paragraphs: measures which have already taken affect, and those which are either recently established/currently underway/ will be underway in the near future.Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 20:46, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Since neither the subway or the Lower Churchill Project will be done anytime soon, it should not be in this article. In any case, you'll need a better source than the website of the company that's building the project. When you originally added the Lower Churchill Project to the article, it was made to appear as though the project was already lowering emissions when it wasn't even done! [1]. "Canada's Clean Air and Climate Change Act" died in 2007 and hasn't been passed since, even in majority. [2]. Worth mentioning sure, but also worth mentioning that it failed and was never implemented.

If you look at the sources, especially the CBC source [3] or the Maclean's source [4], there are numerous instances and examples of scientists being silenced. What exactly the numbers are doesn't matter in the case of the budget cuts, because their effects are verifiable and are what in the article, which makes no claims about net gains or losses. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 02:30, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Patar knight,

Thank you for pointing out that the Lower Churchill Project and the Scarborough subway extensions have not yet been completed. As you requested, I added another source to the Lower Churchill Project. I hope you would agree that renewable energy and public transit fall within the scope of an Environmental Policy. As you know, all public transit expansions and large scale renewable energy initiatives take years to complete. However the actual date of completion is irrelevant. It is when the government provided funding for the project(s) which is important. More specifically, which budget did the funding come from. Otherwise, you would be giving credit/putting blame on subsequent governments for past governments' spending. I hope you would agree that the environmental policy of a government should be assessed by its budgets as opposed to the budgets of previous administrations.

Thank you for pointing out the that Clean Air Act never became law. However, the Clean Air Regulatory Agenda was implemented. This put strict emission standards on automobiles and light trucks.

I have restored the 'silencing scientist' accusation for now. Although, to be fair, the article would benefit from a response from an environment minister (past or present) towards the accusation. This is why I have included a response by former Environment Minister Peter Kent towards the withdraw from the Kyoto protocol. In order to preserve WP's net neutrality, it would be prudent to avoid portraying this withdrawal as 'good' or 'bad'.

Prior to claiming that the overall (net) Environment Canada budget has been cut, perhaps take a look at the Environment Canada webpage https://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=31D9FF32-1 and compare funding levels over the past 3 budgets.

Lastly, thank you for maintaining civility in our discussions. I appreciate your professionalism and respect. Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 07:11, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Digs at the other party? Check. Repeated reference to title? Check. Removal of criticism? Check. Highlighting "announcements"? Check. Looks like the editing I often see on U.S. political articles. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 07:32, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

User:NeilN,

Please explain what specific areas of the article you disagree with. Feel free to edit the tone of the article if required. Do not removed sourced content (such as renewable energy, public transit, or government regulations) without first attempting to reach a consensus on the talk page.Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 07:40, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Ontario Teacher BFA BEd, you misunderstand how WP:BRD works. It is up to you to gain consensus for your changes, especially on a Good Article. Material should be left out, until this consensus is achieved. As it stands, I think your changes are wholly unnecessary and have a POVish tinge to them. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 07:46, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

User:NeilN, My inclusion of the Lower Churchill project in the article in particular was thanked by User:Ntb613 on (13 Oct 2015). Please explain to me why you feel public transit, renewable energy, and government regulations are unnecessary for an environmental policy section. In terms of tone, I removed the potentially biased tone for the Kyoto Protocol section, and replaced it with more neutral language. Please note, I left the Kyoto Protocol section intact. Had I been seeking a POV, I might have removed this section completely, or added biased language in the opposite direction. Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 07:55, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see my initial post. Subtle POV editing is still POV editing. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 07:57, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Anyone else agree with Ontario Teacher BFA BEd's changes? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 22:33, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Hello User:Patar knight,

You have recently removed a sourced section on public transit and renewable energy under speculation that these projects may all be cancelled or that the federal government will withdraw its funding. Please provide sources that state that the York-University-Spadina subway extension, the Scarborough Subway extension, or the Lower Churchill Project will be cancelled.

If, of course, the current federal government withdraws its funding, we could add a sentence stating the project(s) was/were cancelled by a subsequent government. Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 04:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Veterans

Under Stephen Harper, the annual budget of Veterans Affairs Canada increased from $2.8 billion in 2005—2006 to $3.64 billion in 2014—2015, while the quantity of veterans served has declined from 219,152 in 2008-2009 to 199,154 in 2015. User:Patar knight you have misrepresented a Globe and Mail article which states "According to the Royal Bank’s inflation calculator, $3.20-billion in 2006 would be worth $3.72-billion in 2015. So, given that this year’s Veterans Affairs budget is $3.55-billion, the increases have not kept pace with inflation". The same article also states "The annual budget of Veterans Affairs Canada increased from $2.85-billion in 2005-06". The article argues that since the initial increase from $2,853.1 (2005-2006) to $3,202.8 (2006-2007), the subsequent increases have been at around inflation. However, since taking office, the CPC has increased the VAC budget in real dollars after all since the inflation calculation in the article was made from the 2007 numbers (after the initial large budget increase under PM Harper) instead of the 2006 (when Mr. Harper took office). Also, for most accurate numbers, please use the primary source (VAC) instead of secondary sources.Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 05:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Patar knight,

You have stated "Under Stephen Harper, the annual budget of Veterans Affairs Canada increased from $2.85 billion in 2005—2006 to $3.55 billion in 2014—2015 in absolute terms, but in real terms the department has less funding than before because increases have not kept pace with inflation". However, the source does not say this at all!

The Globe and Mail article states: "The annual budget of Veterans Affairs Canada increased from $2.85-billion in 2005-06, the year before Mr. Harper’s Conservatives were first elected to power, to $3.55-billion in 2015-16... when the Conservatives took office, they followed through with that commitment in their first budget, increasing the money to Veterans Affairs by $349.7-million to $3.20-billion in 2006-07... According to the Royal Bank’s inflation calculator, $3.20-billion in 2006 would be worth $3.72-billion in 2015. So, given that this year’s Veterans Affairs budget is $3.55-billion, the increases have not kept pace with inflation".

You have mistakenly overlooked the initial $349.7-million increase from PM Harper's first year in office! Please review the source prior to editing the article.

I have however, for now. used the Globe and Mail editorial numbers. They are pretty close to the VAC numbers. I will double check other sourced to verify the discrepancy. Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 21:38, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Protesting a deletion

This edit [5] removed some material I had added with the edit summary "Remove criticism section, not NPOV and anything else should be put into the main election page". It was well sourced and I think it belongs in this article.

Other opinions? If not where does it belong? Pashley (talk) 12:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

The section should have been removed for WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Criticism backed with reliable sources is fine as long as it's not given WP:UNDUE weight, but as it was, that paragraph isn't appropriate for a biography. — Strongjam (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Critique: The Guardian - Nick Davies - Stephen Harper: master manipulator, 15 October 2015.     ←   ZScarpia   09:42, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Auto Archiving

I've gone ahead and archived all the closed edit requests and sections that haven't gotten an edit since 2008. Is there any objection to setting up User:MiszaBot/config here? Doesn't have to be anything aggressive, even anything older than a couple years would help. — Strongjam (talk) 13:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and enabled auto-archiving. — Strongjam (talk) 15:49, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

"Dropped the writ"

"Dropped the writ" in the 2015 election section. "dropped" is slang and should be avoided in an encyclopaedic setting. "Issued the writ of election" is more appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.128.28.2 (talk) 11:29, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. You are not wrong. And yet, "drop(ed/ing) the writ" has become ubiquitous when stating the point an election is called. Wikipedia even has an article about the phrase. I am personally inclined to leave it as is, though I would not oppose using your proposed phrasing if others find that preferable. Resolute 13:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2015

Edwardzchen (talk) 02:19, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2015

it is no longer Stephen harper

208.101.84.173 (talk) 20:33, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

If by "it" you mean Prime Minister, then no, he is still Prime Minister for now. — Strongjam (talk) 20:40, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: You haven't actually made a request. Resolute 20:48, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Updating the page due to 2015 federal election!

Erm, isn't Justin Trudeau the Prime Minister now? The election just happened so yeah...

(I would like to request that the page be edited to say he WAS, not IS the Prime Minister of Canada) Great Hero J (talk) 23:41, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Until he formally submits (which I don't think he has yet) his resignation to the Governor General, Harper remains PM. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 23:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make that change, you will be providing reliable sources, right? Go look for them, and you will find that they all say that Harper still is prime minister. Because you wouldn't make such a big change without providing references, would you? Ground Zero | t 00:28, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

He said he'd accept the result "without hesitation" and gave up his party leadership. For all intents and purposes, he's done, and most mainstream sources are clearly calling Trudeau the Prime Minister in present tense. But yes, there's probably some royal scepter (or mace) business that needs to be done before it's totally official. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:40, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

CBC calls Trudeau the Prime Minister-designate, but also call him and Obama the "two leaders", not "one and nine-tenths". InedibleHulk (talk) 01:45, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

I ran out of popcorn on election night, from throwing it at the screen, each time Peter Mansbridge erroneously called Trudeau the new PM. Each time he said it, I knew a batch of IPs would start making premature changes to Harper's & Trudeau's bio articles. GoodDay (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

So Harper has said he will resign. He has not resigned yet, agreed? There is a difference between a future state and the present state that does not disappear because you add "for all intents and purposes". In fact, for all intents and purposes, Harper is the prime minister: legally, constitutionally and really, truly, Stephen Harper is prime minister. If anything needs the PM's signature, it will be Harper who signs it. It is true this state will change in the coming weeks, and then Wikipedia should be updated. But it has not changed yet. That's why we distinguish between "Prime Minister Harper" and "Prime Minister-designate Trudeau". Ground Zero | t 10:22, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I guess it depends on how we define intents and purposes. Is it maybe safer to say he's done for all intensive purposes? If not, yes, I officially agree. He's still the boss. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:25, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

There is no rush, when the current PM resigns he is no longer PM, when the new PM takes over, then he is PM, not before. Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

If he resigns. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:25, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Oh please, the idea that he wouldn't is ridiculous. I don't think you know how our system of government works. Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:34, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Only very vaguely. I know the idea that Royal assent is always granted is based on it simply always working that way, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is no election enforcement policy on paper. There's a first time for everything, even an impolite Canadian. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:03, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Much of our constitution is unwritten convention. If I cam off as impolite I am sorry, it was not my intention. Anyway, this [6] says they will come in on Nov 4 so I expect the current PM to resign that day. Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

You're not impolite, I meant the Prime Minister who one day refuses to budge, even after the Crown says "Excuse me, sir." InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

If he didn't resign, the Governor General would dismiss him and appoint Trudeau. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 03:47, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Harper is Prime Minister until he resigns, which will tentatively be on November 4, 2015. If he were to refuse to resign (when Trudeau's ready to be appointed & sworn in), then the Governor General would merely dismiss him. GoodDay (talk) 02:51, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

In theory a defeated PM could hold out for a vote of confidence when parliament resumes (assuming the GG didn‘t care to be proactive), but even facing a minority it would be a long shot, and of course utterly futile against a majority.—Odysseus1479 07:44, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

There's a bit of precedent at 1975 Australian constitutional crisis for this dismissal stuff, and CBC says ours could do the same, but I still can't find it in legal writing. If he refuses to be dismissed, is it something like treason? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

He couldn't refuse to be dismissed; if the Governor General dismissed him, he'd be dismissed. If he refused to resign, though, after a vote of non-confidence, it'd just be unconstitutional; contrary to the unwritten conventions that are part of the Canadian constitution. (I highly doubt the Governor General would even allow Harper to carry on as prime minister, knowing his chances of getting the confidence of the House back are infinitesimal.) --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 21:59, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

So, per tradition, the Canadian thing to do is say "We gave it our best, but our best wasn't good enough, eh?" Don't make the GG ask twice, because it wouldn't be nice to make her ask a third time. Thanks for clarifying! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:03, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Considering the results of the 2015 fed election, the GG would merely be carrying out the people's will, by saying in words/writing to Harper --- "YOU'RE FIRED". GoodDay (talk) 11:44, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like that other boss. If we still lived in a simpler time, the old PM could simply pucker up and keep his job. But no, that'd be a brand new low. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:23, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

"Governor-General" with a hyphen is incorrect spelling in Canada

That is how it is spelled in Australia but not Canada. Masalai (talk) 18:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization

I have restored my correction of the capitalization of "chief of staff", and made a couple more, which should be lower case in these instances per MOS:JOBTITLES: "Offices, titles, and positions such as president, king, emperor, pope, bishop, abbot, executive director are common nouns and therefore should be in lower case when used generically: Mitterrand was the French president or There were many presidents at the meeting." The exceptions identified in that guide do not apply here. Ground Zero | t 02:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Infobox

IMHO, the PM departure date November 4, 2015, should be deleted or hidden, until Harper actually resigns as Prime Minister on that date. There's no need for premature edits here. GoodDay (talk) 19:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

My undertstanding of common practice here is we show known term end dates, especially when they are in the very near future. The reader wants info - like when does Harper's term end exactly. We serve the reader. Everyone can see Nov 4 is in the future, until its in the past. Legacypac (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

The practice has always been to wait until the transition actually occurs. Anyways, we'll let others weigh in. GoodDay (talk) 19:16, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Technically there are no Members of Parliament at the moment. http://www.parl.gc.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/Michael-D-Chong(25488) (he won) Legacypac (talk) 19:38, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no exact end to Harper's "term" (hence, it isn't a term). Regardless, November 4 is the tentative date for Trudeau to announce the new Cabinet, not the date Harper hands his resignation to the Governor General. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 21:22, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I think we should mention that he is expected to resign Nov 4. I understand that in Canada the PM is appointed by the governor not elected and therefore does not leave office until the governor officially announces his acceptance of the resignation. But let's not be so pedantic that we fail to provide information that no one doubts. TFD (talk) 18:49, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Is there a source for that? The only event I've seen scheduled for 4 November is the revelation of who's to be in the new ministry. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 20:07, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

I would oppose adding November 4, 2015 (or whatever the departure dates turns out to be) to the infobox, while Harper is still PM. I see no reason to rush this. GoodDay (talk) 20:28, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

If there is a source that explicitly says that he will resign Prime Minister on a date, then we could do something. People are mistaking Justin Trudeau's planned swearing-in as Harper's own quitting date of the PM title. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 23:24, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

And if there's nothing explicitly saying Canada can't have two concurrent PMs, we could do twice as much (Canada, not Wikipedia). One guy could handle the money, drilling and killing abroad and his partner could nurture, shelter and entertain us at home. If two consenting adults want to form a stable and responsible union in this day and age, I can tolerate not standing in the way of their double global leadership dreams.

But if Trudeau thinks he can raise us by himself, like his father managed, all the power to him, too! Struggling builds character. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:26, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

The outgoing PM always tenders his resignation on the morning the new PM and other Ministers are sworn in. All previous Minister's terms end that day, which has been widely reported as Nov 4. Legacypac (talk) 06:46, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

The past is a fairly good indicator of the future, but every rule has occasional exceptions, especially the unwritten ones. Did you know Abraham Lincoln once called on a divided house to stand together? Think of the children, Harper! InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

Last night on Raw, Mexico and the US formed a new nation. If Trudeau doesn't want to stay together for the kids, he can at least tie this knot for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:16, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

It's not going to hurt anyone, to actually wait until Harper resigns, before adding the departure date. GoodDay (talk) 04:29, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

See this article for the process. [7] Harper is already moving out of 24 Sussex. [8] Legacypac (talk) 06:07, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Irrelevant, as he hasn't resigned as Prime Minister, yet. GoodDay (talk) 06:09, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

[9] says that NOv 4 will be the day Justin becomes PM, as published by every serious media outlet in the country. Legacypac (talk) 06:19, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not November 4, yet. There's no reason to insert the date, before it gets here. GoodDay (talk) 06:20, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Better go delete this page and all the articles linked from it then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_electoral_calendar_2016 Legacypac (talk) 06:29, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Seeing as you & I are never going to agree on this topic. It's best we allo others to weigh in. GoodDay (talk) 06:31, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I support removing the date entirely. Adding "expected" to the date just highlights that we don't know for sure when the change will happen. Per WP:CRYSTALBALL the date is not definite until it actually happens. Meters (talk) 06:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, the date should be removed. GoodDay (talk) 16:09, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Of many sources that mention Trudeau and 4 November, that's the only one I've seen that says that's the day he's to be sworn-in as prime minister. Are there others?

Regardless, even if there are, we can only say it's expected he's to be sworn-in that day. Nothing guarantees he will be. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 16:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

But, should we be showing any such date, before Harper actually resigns? GoodDay (talk) 16:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Assuming there is more verification that 4 November is the date of the appointment of the new Cabinet: ideally, no. Especially not in the infobox, as the "expected" part isn't readable as specifically related to the 4 November date. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 16:55, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

As much as I want to, I won't be removing the date. It's not worth my getting blocked, which is what might happen to me :( GoodDay (talk) 17:01, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be much support to keep it, and I agree it's seems WP:CRYSTAL, especially for the infobox where there isn't much context.I'll be removing shortly. — Strongjam (talk) 17:05, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

It is not "Crystal Ball" to state what reliable sources expect to happen, only to report what editors think will happen. The guideline says, "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." That Harper will leave office on Nov. 4 is notable and almost certain to take place. TFD (talk) 19:41, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Normally it wouldn't be an issue, but for whatever reason there has been no official announcement this time of Harper's intentions/actions. Meters (talk) 19:55, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

A story in the National Post says Rideau Hall has just confirmed it.[10] But we do not need official announcements, just reliable sources. TFD (talk) 20:11, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

AFAIK, it's always been the practice on the 'pedia, to wait until a lame duck office holder leaves office, before adding the departure date. GoodDay (talk) 20:18, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I do not know why that should be, and guidelines seem to be against it. A version of this article from 5 Feb. 2006 says, "takes office February 6, 2006." TFD (talk) 20:37, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Harper's already in office, though. GoodDay (talk) 20:40, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

It's in the lede already. When in the infobox, the "expected" part ends up on the next line, meaning it doesn't get read in conjunction with the 4 November date. It doesn't need to be in the infobox. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 20:51, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘GoodDay, he was not in office Feb 5, 2006, yet the info-box said he would take office Feb 6, 2006, which was still in the future, just as today Nov 4 is still in the future.[11] Mies there are only two reasons we would leave this information out of the info-box: (1) it is unimportant, (2) it is uncertain. Since Harper's main notability is being Canadian PM, it is important. And there is no doubt that Harper will follow convention and resign and that the governor will accept it. Yes I know there is nothing in law preventing Harper from remaining in office, but given Canada's parliamentary tradition, it will not happen. TFD (talk) 23:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

That example would better fit the infobox at Justin Trudeau, however. Back to departure dates, we even practice keeping out such dates in fixed-term offices. See edit histories of American politicial officers bios (governors, senators, representatives), departure dates weren't added until terms ended. Guarenteed, between 8 Nov 2016 & 20 Jan 2017, the date "January 20, 2017" won't be shown in Barack Obama's infobox. GoodDay (talk) 23:09, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I'd be careful with that promise. Lots of things pop up in that guy's infobox, at least temporarily. For over two hours, he was apparently married to one of his relatives. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:13, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

"(2) it is uncertain." Yes, precisely. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 23:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Leader of the Conservative Party

We need some clarification here, folks. Did Harper resign as Conservative leader effective immediately on election night (Oct. 19, 2015), or does his resignation only take effect when an interim leader is chosen (Nov. 5, 2015). -- GoodDay (talk) 20:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no evidence that he has resigned as leader, so we should continue to say he is leader until rs says he has resigned or been replaced by an interim leader. TFD (talk) 23:14, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

We're still at the end of the beginning, not yet the beginning of the end. Or some such political nonsense. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:17, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

This source seems to add to the confusion. It's calling Harper the outgoing leader & also former leader. GoodDay (talk) 16:50, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Reverted edits re. Harper's resignation

An edit I made today has been reverted twice (1, 2). I won't add it again because I have no interest in getting into an edit war but I would like to note that nowhere in WP:RS is there a policy that U.S. sources are unacceptable, and that a statement of fact from a reputable news organization like The New York Times is considered reliable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia. I can't find the CTV article that User:Legacypac makes reference to in the edit summary, but I don't think it necessarily contradicts the NYT statement – if the reporters were kept away from Rideau Hall during Harper's resignation, then indeed they had not arrived there to witness it. I reject the characterisation of the NYT statement as a "throwaway line" because it is somewhat specific and because, again, NYT is a reliable source. Altogether this is very weak rationale for stubbornly censoring a neutral and cited statement of fact. Citobun (talk) 07:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

The referenced statement is based on the very last line in the NYT article, and not the thrust of the article. Stuff way down at the bottom of articles is often thrown away by newspaper editors (literally). I have no issue with The NYTimes as being reliable, but it is a trivial detail that may or may not be true published by an American newspaper. US media is not famous for getting the nuances of Canadian politics correct. Set against 10 years of being PM, and a long political career before that, this potentially true or false piece of trivia is an inappropriate addition to a biography, especially as it implies Harper shooed away the media, which is negative not neutral and even if it was an important enough detail to include, would need better Canadian sourcing, not just the NYT. Legacypac (talk) 08:12, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it's trivial – I found the statement while specifically researching the resignation on Google because I thought it particularly odd that I had seen no photo/video coverage of Harper's resignation as PM. Citobun (talk) 08:50, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

It is not trivial; it is a typical & important example of Harper's style, like refusing to come to a national debate, telling Tory candidates not to go to local all-candidates meetings, and so on. The reversion looks to me like yet more whitewashing as discussed at #POV by glaring omissions above.

Whatever the motive for the reversion, User:Citobun's text or something like it should certainly be restored. Pashley (talk) 13:45, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Usually there is none. Day is about the new govt. Legacypac (talk) 09:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

FWIW, Harper and his cabinet resigned on the morning of November 4, 2015. Their resignations took effect upon being accepted by the Governor General. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Would you put such trivial speculation in John Turner or Kim Campbell or any other PM article? I doubt it. Legacypac (talk) 14:11, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

2011 census section

The section doesn't even refer to Harper and secondly it's hardly a defining decision of his leadership. Many countries do major changes to census. Suggest deleting the whole section. LibStar (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Stephen Harper. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101003100708/http://www.theglobeandmail.com:80/news/politics/bishops-castigate-clement-on-census-change/article1657511/ to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/bishops-castigate-clement-on-census-change/article1657511

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:02, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Religious beliefs

This article states that Stephen Harper is "a member of the evangelical Christian and Missionary Alliance and attends church at the East Gate Alliance Church in Ottawa." I do not dispute this at all, but this sentence is supported only by only one reference that is 10 years old. Are there any more recent sources about Harper's religious beliefs? --1990'sguy (talk) 20:14, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 external links on Stephen Harper. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160105093205/http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060114.wxibbitson14/BNStory/specialNewTory2006/national/?pageRequested=all to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060114.wxibbitson14/BNStory/specialNewTory2006/national/?pageRequested=all
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080302105906/http://www.theglobeandmail.com:80/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080227.wcadmann0227/BNStory/National/home to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080227.wcadmann0227/BNStory/National/home
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120203125335/http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=4511788&sponsor= to http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=4511788&sponsor=
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131005180826/http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080906.JUDGE06/TPStory/?query=newfoundland+supreme+court to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080906.JUDGE06/TPStory/?query=newfoundland+supreme+court
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131723162500/http://pm.gc.ca/eng/fostering-pets to http://pm.gc.ca/eng/fostering-pets

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 03:48, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

More about Harper's anti-science restrictions

Is this an interesting link for this article? Nine Years of Censorship --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:21, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Stephen Harper

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Stephen Harper's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "dominionofcanada.com":

• From William Lyon Mackenzie King: "Commemorative Medals of The Queen’s Reign in Canada". 
• From Pierre Trudeau: http://dominionofcanada.com/commemorative_medals/index.html

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:57, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Time as MP

In the news today it was announced that he would be resigning as an MP this summer.

Also, should the dates as MP be corrected, currently shows a gap between the date of the election call and the date of the election. Was he not technically still the MP for the old riding up until election day? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.211.131 (talk) 16:27, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Once parliament is dissolved there are no MPs. Dbrodbeck (talk) 17:22, 25 May 2016 (UTC)